Home / Be The Change / The Power of Knowledge: Harvard Debate Team Loses to Prison Debate Team

The Power of Knowledge: Harvard Debate Team Loses to Prison Debate Team

Napanoch, NY – In a true testament to the raw talent, and stellar minds being wasted in American maximum-security prisons, three men incarcerated for violent crimes at the Eastern New York Correctional Facility defeated the elite debate team from Harvard University.

On one side of the stage sat three Ivy League undergraduates from the elite Harvard debate team, while sitting opposite them were three men serving felony prison sentences for violent crimes.

After an hour of intellectual sparing the fast-moving debate was over, with the judges declaring victory for the inmates after weighing the veracity of each teams’ arguments.

The audience, which included almost 75 fellow participants in the Bard College Initiative, burst into applause when it was announced that the prison debate team had bested the Harvard team.

Prior to the start of the debate, team members discussed hopes of inspiring other inmates.

“If we win, it’s going to make a lot of people question what goes on in here,” said Alex Hall, a 31-year-old from Manhattan convicted of manslaughter. “We might not be as naturally rhetorically gifted, but we work really hard.”

The prison debate team is the product of the Bard College Initiative, which began in 2001. The program is a rigorous academic experience offered to the men incarcerated at the Catskills, New York penitentiary through the Bard College in Annandale-on-Hudson, N.Y.

The forward thinking program allows motivated inmates the ability to develop their academic talents through hard work and dedication. Roughly 10 inmates apply for each opening in the program through interviews and written essays.

According to a report by the Wall Street Journal:

There is no tuition. The initiative’s roughly $2.5 million annual budget comes from private donors and includes money it spends helping other programs follow its model in nine other states.

Last year Gov. Andrew Cuomo, a Democrat, proposed state grants for college classes for inmates, saying that helping them become productive taxpayers would save money long-term. He dropped the plan after attacks from Republican politicians who argued that many law-abiding families struggled to afford college and shouldn’t have pay for convicted criminals to get degrees.

The Bard program’s leaders say that out of more than 300 alumni who earned degrees while in custody, less than 2% returned to prison within three years, the standard time frame for measuring recidivism.

In New York state as a whole, by contrast, about 40% of ex-offenders end up back in prison, mostly because of to parole violations, according to the New York Department of Corrections and Community Supervision.

Members of the Harvard team were clearly impressed by the prisoners’ intellectual prowess.

“They caught us off guard,” said Harvard debate team member Anais Carell, a 20-year-old junior from Chicago.

The prison debate team has actually been scoring victories over some of the nation’s most elite debate teams.

In their first debate in spring of 2014, the prisoners beat the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, then defeated nationally ranked University of Vermont.

The stark reality is that an amazing wealth of human capital has been systematically thrown away in locked in cages as a means of lining the pockets of special interest groups and politicians, known as the Prison Industrial Complex.

Additionally, the program touts how much capital can be saved by implementing common sense educational opportunities for inmates.

According to the Bard Prison Initiative:

The criminal justice system is staggeringly expensive. As a country we spend $212 billion dollars annually to apprehend, try, and incarcerate prisoners. In recent years, the United States has maintained a prison population of more than 2.3 million people, with the average annual cost of over $29,000 per person (in many states, including New York, the cost is much higher). And while America has the longest and most punitive sentencing structures in the modern world, 750,000 inmates are released each year. Nationwide, nearly 68 out of every one hundred prisoners are rearrested within three years of release, and more than half return to prison. Research indicates that these high and expensive rates of recidivism fall to less than 22% if prisons offer significant educational opportunity to incarcerated men and women. Among formerly incarcerated Bard students, less than 2% have returned to prison. The estimated cost per person, per year of the BPI program is a small fraction of the price of continuing incarceration. It saves tax payers money, while increasing public safety.

At least 95% of all inmates will be released back onto the streets of America. The current prison system has essentially become college for criminals, with survival of the fittest being taught as the curriculum.

Is that who you want moving in next door to you?

The get tough on crime approach has failed, and new approaches must be undertaken to overhaul the failing corrections system. The Bard Prison Initiative program should serve as a model as to what can be accomplished if we shift our focus from a punitive to restorative model of justice.

Share this story if you agree that it’s time to end the prison for profit scam!!


Jay Syrmopoulos is an investigative journalist, free thinker, researcher, and ardent opponent of authoritarianism. He is currently a graduate student at University of Denver pursuing a masters in Global Affairs. Jay’s work has been published on Ben Swann’s Truth in Media, Truth-Out, AlterNet, InfoWars, MintPressNews and many other sites. You can follow him on Twitter @sirmetropolis, on Facebook at Sir Metropolis and now on tsu

  • We need to do away with all the draconian laws that help create this problem. Like + Comment + Share If you think it’s time to End the Drug War ← (Y)

    • Just analysis. Do you believe in Christ?

    • I do think its time to end the drug war. The guys on the debate team were in prison for violent crimes, tho. Not to say they couldn’t have been wrongfully imprisoned, or that they shouldn’t recieve education while in prison… but what does that have to do with the war on drugs?

  • PROBATION IS ENTRAPMENT.

  • The universe doesn’t make mistakes. The timing in which things enter or leave your life are important.

  • Couldn’t agree more. Would like to see this debate team in action!

  • LOOK OUT ABD BLESS THEM

  • This needs a Good Will Hunting meme saying : “how you like those apples?”

  • Ever work with anyone fresh from the university it’s sad how little they know

  • shared

  • Education in the US is nothing but a joke, our 12 years old kids know more ( Finland ) than your university students…even some of the 3rd. World countries rank higher on the international education tests than the US!

    • What counties would those be, mika?

    • Johnny McGowan Use google, but obviously you don’t even know the name of the tests or anything…otherwise you wouldn’t be typing stupid come back attempts, you’re probably one of those idiots who keeps on voting for similar idiots and keep on ruining your own country along with others.

    • Funny you should ask. I did look it up and didn’t see any third world countries ahead of the U.S., hence why I asked you which countries you’re talking about. No need to get so defensive if you’re actually telling the truth 🙂

    • I’ll even post the source I’m citing (a luxury you’re apparently unwilling to afford us) http://www.bbc.com/news/business-32608772

    • Well to me Vietnam is a 3rd. World country but you being American ( moron ) those are only in Africa, right? And judging by your response you actually had no clue about the actual name of the test (which is given again for the same reason)

    • Vietnam being 3rd. World country much in the same way as your dear US is…get real dude! Killings and the lack of rights etc. You should shame yourselves for calling the US civilized or developed…

    • I’d disagree with your assessment of Vietnam, it’s become a developing nation despite our best efforts in the 70s. The article you posted doesn’t seem to list anything, just an explanation of a test. So are you going to tell us which “third world” counties scored higher than the u.s. or do we just have to keep guessing? 🙂

    • I’ve done your research for you and the list seems almost identical to the 2015 results I posted, i.e. no “third world” countries outperforming the U.S., lest you maintain your derogatory view of Vietnam. So in light of that, why did you make that claim?

    • You can disagree all you want and stop calling yourself as we…moron…and what does that link contain, fucking all the data or can’t you read? And what do we call the 3rd. World countries nowadays..? Developing countries because the old term (which I only used because i’m talking to a moron) is concidered to be somewhat racist and thus not used…and FYI we live in a totally different time zones so your mariachi music can play all you want, I will have to leave to work which is something your kind probably knows nothing of, you have proven that already with your stupidity…or then you think that flipping burgers counts as a job…

    • I think you have some anger issues, mika 🙂 and you used “third world” in your original post, before anyone ever replied, for what it’s worth. I simply want to know why you said that, since (as the picture I posted shows), none of what you referred to as “third world countries” outperformed the U.S. Were you just trying to be bombastic, prove a point, didn’t think anyone would call you out on it? Just curious 🙂

    • And at the risk of being a nitpicker, your use of “some” implies that multiple “third world” counties outperformed the U.S., meaning even if we were to accept that Vietnam is third world (it isn’t), you still lack sufficient proof for your claim 🙂

    • Maybe it was an exaggerated claim taken way to literal by you. Point is, Mika’s claim that Finland is more educated that the U.S holds true.

    • I don’t recall disputing that claim, Caleb

    • Because, as shown by my posts, that claim is at least empirically borne out with evidence. My issue is with his other claim, you know, the one he can’t provide evidence for. This page has a rather dubious history of making exaggerated claims without proof, so I’m not surprised it’s trickling down to the posters. Words have set meanings, whether you like it or not 🙂

    • Hahaha, back from whole day of working and this guy is still going on…like I thought it was, jobless nobody with nothing else to do than take things wayyyy too serious etc.

    • You sound exactly like the admins of this page 🙂 “evidence? Pssshhh our false claims don’t need evidence!! N00b!!1!!”

    • Called out and taken to task by a stupid American, must be so embarrassing for you 🙂

    • Trust me, if you would have just admitted you made that claim up or don’t have evidence of it, I would have dropped this long ago. Pride comes before the fall, mika 🙂

  • Shoulda put em up against police team ,, Also maybe the prison has dropped the amount of fluoride in their water ?

  • The approach on crime has failed ! Now they shoot to kill rather then have to deal with most ! No wonder the approach on crime has failed ! Who can you trust !

  • The is wonderful!

  • Get tough on the right crimes.

  • Harvard team loses to Prison team…that should tell you something! LOL!!

  • With over 20 years behind those walls, i learned only one thing. When ever you go into a place like that, you either come out better, or you come out worse, but you will not come out the same, it fundamentally changes a person, their perception of freedom, of respect,honor and loyalty. But it still is their choice on how we come out. We all know right and wrong, there is no magic bullet.

  • Antifa is a noble thought, I just disagree with their proclivity to curtail freedom (usually speech) to enforce it

  • If this message resonates with you like it does us, give it a (Y), comment or share to help more people see it!

    • I like that one
      the philosophy of science is way far than mere science

    • Read earlier that the cons were not allowed access to the internet. Had to study old school, from books, that had to be specially requested, in advance.

    • I believe this will cause usto lose sight of what is important as wedrown in minutia; all in a climate where knowledge is not valued because every one thinks looking it up on Google equates to knowledge.

    • Knowledge is power. In hopes of more states following your lead.

    • Mike Parker, there are academic search engines for peer reviewed articles too. Proquest is the engine I use. I could never dream of a Harvard education it is beyond my ability to afford. However, what this did teach me is the value of reading everything you can down to the last punctuation mark. And another is nothing can replace books or other printed works ever.

    • Mike Parker Replace Google with “books” and you still have the same problem.

    • Wisdom doesn’t come from reading information wether it’s on google or in a paperback book or told to you by a “teacher.” I can’t make a nuclear bomb but I can make someone feel better after their pet dies. That’s the difference between wisdom and knowledge. You can know how physics work and still end up in jail for running around naked stabbing people.

    • He looks wise. Look at those eyebrows.

    • Wisdom comes with age, because not everything can be taught.

    • Just try it 🙂 The Truth Contest truthcontest.com

    • Sadly true

  • If this message resonates with you like it does us, give it a (Y), comment or share to help more people see it!

    • I like that one
      the philosophy of science is way far than mere science

    • Read earlier that the cons were not allowed access to the internet. Had to study old school, from books, that had to be specially requested, in advance.

    • I believe this will cause usto lose sight of what is important as wedrown in minutia; all in a climate where knowledge is not valued because every one thinks looking it up on Google equates to knowledge.

    • Knowledge is power. In hopes of more states following your lead.

    • Mike Parker, there are academic search engines for peer reviewed articles too. Proquest is the engine I use. I could never dream of a Harvard education it is beyond my ability to afford. However, what this did teach me is the value of reading everything you can down to the last punctuation mark. And another is nothing can replace books or other printed works ever.

    • Mike Parker Replace Google with “books” and you still have the same problem.

    • Wisdom doesn’t come from reading information wether it’s on google or in a paperback book or told to you by a “teacher.” I can’t make a nuclear bomb but I can make someone feel better after their pet dies. That’s the difference between wisdom and knowledge. You can know how physics work and still end up in jail for running around naked stabbing people.

    • He looks wise. Look at those eyebrows.

    • Wisdom comes with age, because not everything can be taught.

    • Just try it 🙂 The Truth Contest truthcontest.com

    • Sadly true

  • If this message resonates with you like it does us, give it a (Y), comment or share to help more people see it!

    • I like that one
      the philosophy of science is way far than mere science

    • Read earlier that the cons were not allowed access to the internet. Had to study old school, from books, that had to be specially requested, in advance.

    • I believe this will cause usto lose sight of what is important as wedrown in minutia; all in a climate where knowledge is not valued because every one thinks looking it up on Google equates to knowledge.

    • Knowledge is power. In hopes of more states following your lead.

    • Mike Parker, there are academic search engines for peer reviewed articles too. Proquest is the engine I use. I could never dream of a Harvard education it is beyond my ability to afford. However, what this did teach me is the value of reading everything you can down to the last punctuation mark. And another is nothing can replace books or other printed works ever.

    • Mike Parker Replace Google with “books” and you still have the same problem.

    • Wisdom doesn’t come from reading information wether it’s on google or in a paperback book or told to you by a “teacher.” I can’t make a nuclear bomb but I can make someone feel better after their pet dies. That’s the difference between wisdom and knowledge. You can know how physics work and still end up in jail for running around naked stabbing people.

    • He looks wise. Look at those eyebrows.

    • Wisdom comes with age, because not everything can be taught.

    • Just try it 🙂 The Truth Contest truthcontest.com

    • Sadly true

  • I don’t get why everyone is so shocked at this

    • Because brainwashing works.

    • Perhaps because people who haven’t the slightest clue what being in prison is really like or who is locked up in prison assumes they are all stupid degenerates and also assumes that those in a prestigious university are hard working and studious?

    • exactly! Malcolm X’s education stopped at 8th grade, he taught himself everything he knew in prison

    • Gary Schachtner Awsome vid, I shared

  • I don’t get why everyone is so shocked at this

    • Because brainwashing works.

    • Perhaps because people who haven’t the slightest clue what being in prison is really like or who is locked up in prison assumes they are all stupid degenerates and also assumes that those in a prestigious university are hard working and studious?

    • exactly! Malcolm X’s education stopped at 8th grade, he taught himself everything he knew in prison

    • Gary Schachtner Awsome vid, I shared

  • I don’t get why everyone is so shocked at this

    • Because brainwashing works.

    • Perhaps because people who haven’t the slightest clue what being in prison is really like or who is locked up in prison assumes they are all stupid degenerates and also assumes that those in a prestigious university are hard working and studious?

    • exactly! Malcolm X’s education stopped at 8th grade, he taught himself everything he knew in prison

    • Gary Schachtner Awsome vid, I shared

  • ya but what was the drbate about???

    • oh look here one of the officials from the prison debate team wants to head to the showers. It just matters what topic was the debate over just wanted to know.

  • ya but what was the drbate about???

    • oh look here one of the officials from the prison debate team wants to head to the showers. It just matters what topic was the debate over just wanted to know.

  • ya but what was the drbate about???

    • oh look here one of the officials from the prison debate team wants to head to the showers. It just matters what topic was the debate over just wanted to know.

  • what was the topic?

  • what was the topic?

  • what was the topic?

  • I mean, I study way more when my man has me tied up. I’ll take any and all takers. I will, of course, expect Alex Trebec as moderator.

  • I mean, I study way more when my man has me tied up. I’ll take any and all takers. I will, of course, expect Alex Trebec as moderator.

  • I mean, I study way more when my man has me tied up. I’ll take any and all takers. I will, of course, expect Alex Trebec as moderator.

  • I don’t see why this is an issue or so “cool”? Remember, Ted Bundy was a genius.

    • Yeah, being smart is stupid.

    • People judge peoples worth and intelligence by pieces of paper we call degrees. The point is that it’s not that simple. That’s all.

    • No, Leanne. Read the article. That is not the point.

  • I don’t see why this is an issue or so “cool”? Remember, Ted Bundy was a genius.

    • Yeah, being smart is stupid.

    • People judge peoples worth and intelligence by pieces of paper we call degrees. The point is that it’s not that simple. That’s all.

    • No, Leanne. Read the article. That is not the point.

  • I don’t see why this is an issue or so “cool”? Remember, Ted Bundy was a genius.

    • Yeah, being smart is stupid.

    • People judge peoples worth and intelligence by pieces of paper we call degrees. The point is that it’s not that simple. That’s all.

    • No, Leanne. Read the article. That is not the point.

  • One team most likely drinks alcohol to excess, may use all sorts of drugs (legal and illegal), is probably obsessed with sex and parties all night long on a regular basis. The other has nothing to do but study. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here?

    • Shut up. What have you achieved in your pathetic life. Some arguments are impossible to defend even by the worlds best Lawyers. How is sex and socializing a bad thing.

    • Bruce Valladares Who said anything about good or bad. I was simply stating that one group is likely to study hard and the other is likely to goof off.

    • Bruce Valladares And get a grip, Brucie, I’m certain nobody has come even close to your accomplishments.

    • Wow, Bruce. If that’s what you took from Ron’s comparison, you clearly missed the point. -.-‘ grow the hell up.

    • Yeah cause I’m sure people at Harvard don’t have to devote huge hours to their studies in order to stay enrolled. It’s not some little bullshit junior college. It’s one of the most prestigious Ivy League schools, be real.

    • Brett Blakeney and Yet failed against prisoners, Anyone have the video of the contest?

    • Wow … Another example of what money can’t buy. It can get a person a degree but, depending on the character and dedication of the individual, it can’t guarantee intelligence. Whereas, once again the poorest and the least able in society have risen by sheer determination, dedication and hunger to win. By the very thought of this debate one would have thought it would have been unfair and maybe even one sided. I think it’s honorable of the students to undertake such an engagement and I’m sure there are lessons for all that could be learned from this exhibition, or maybe not.

    • Thomas Penalber So why are they in prison in the first place?

    • Mark Smith they sure didn’t go for drinking and fun nights of sex lmao 😂 the point is not y they are there. Thet have all the time in the world to bettrr their self and I can bet you the Elite team thought it would be a cake walk and felt they could do it with their eyes close. And to the guy that said its an Ivy league and they all study alot bull shit. Those school are known for their cover up and bull shit. Yes u mist be smart to get im and smarter to graduate but they party and f up too. I know that for a fact.

    • Good question, Mark Smith. I want to believe there were crimes committed and they are paying their debit to society or maybe just maybe some are in there because of who or where they were. There have been a lot of video every day of officers caught covering up the facts and judges and lawyer on the take to fill prison quotas. But in any case, because they are there, society should give them an opportunity to improve themselves and maybe we would all be safer and more secure. These prisons are only cages that turn inmates from bad to worse instead of better then release them with no chance of finding work. It just seems we are going about this all wrong.

    • Who cares why they’re there! You don’t have to commit a serious crime to go to prison! Carrying weed in your pocket can get you sent to prison! (That’s changing now of course) point is they actually used their time in jail well. They bettered themselves instead of relying on their parents money to buy them into a big-name school. Just because its a famous or prestigious place does NOT mean the people there are intelligent people who work hard!

    • You’re right Willow, anyone that has access to books can learn. That’s the funny thing about knowledge it’s open to everyone. It’s strange to look at all of the successful people that neither completed nor went to college and those who have worked themselves to to the top of their fields yet, in today’s job market a person with no higher education but having expert knowledge are left out of the HR hiring pool for having no degree on a resume’. It seems to be such a game.

  • One team most likely drinks alcohol to excess, may use all sorts of drugs (legal and illegal), is probably obsessed with sex and parties all night long on a regular basis. The other has nothing to do but study. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here?

    • Shut up. What have you achieved in your pathetic life. Some arguments are impossible to defend even by the worlds best Lawyers. How is sex and socializing a bad thing.

    • Bruce Valladares Who said anything about good or bad. I was simply stating that one group is likely to study hard and the other is likely to goof off.

    • Bruce Valladares And get a grip, Brucie, I’m certain nobody has come even close to your accomplishments.

    • Wow, Bruce. If that’s what you took from Ron’s comparison, you clearly missed the point. -.-‘ grow the hell up.

    • Yeah cause I’m sure people at Harvard don’t have to devote huge hours to their studies in order to stay enrolled. It’s not some little bullshit junior college. It’s one of the most prestigious Ivy League schools, be real.

    • Brett Blakeney and Yet failed against prisoners, Anyone have the video of the contest?

    • Wow … Another example of what money can’t buy. It can get a person a degree but, depending on the character and dedication of the individual, it can’t guarantee intelligence. Whereas, once again the poorest and the least able in society have risen by sheer determination, dedication and hunger to win. By the very thought of this debate one would have thought it would have been unfair and maybe even one sided. I think it’s honorable of the students to undertake such an engagement and I’m sure there are lessons for all that could be learned from this exhibition, or maybe not.

    • Thomas Penalber So why are they in prison in the first place?

    • Mark Smith they sure didn’t go for drinking and fun nights of sex lmao 😂 the point is not y they are there. Thet have all the time in the world to bettrr their self and I can bet you the Elite team thought it would be a cake walk and felt they could do it with their eyes close. And to the guy that said its an Ivy league and they all study alot bull shit. Those school are known for their cover up and bull shit. Yes u mist be smart to get im and smarter to graduate but they party and f up too. I know that for a fact.

    • Good question, Mark Smith. I want to believe there were crimes committed and they are paying their debit to society or maybe just maybe some are in there because of who or where they were. There have been a lot of video every day of officers caught covering up the facts and judges and lawyer on the take to fill prison quotas. But in any case, because they are there, society should give them an opportunity to improve themselves and maybe we would all be safer and more secure. These prisons are only cages that turn inmates from bad to worse instead of better then release them with no chance of finding work. It just seems we are going about this all wrong.

    • Who cares why they’re there! You don’t have to commit a serious crime to go to prison! Carrying weed in your pocket can get you sent to prison! (That’s changing now of course) point is they actually used their time in jail well. They bettered themselves instead of relying on their parents money to buy them into a big-name school. Just because its a famous or prestigious place does NOT mean the people there are intelligent people who work hard!

    • You’re right Willow, anyone that has access to books can learn. That’s the funny thing about knowledge it’s open to everyone. It’s strange to look at all of the successful people that neither completed nor went to college and those who have worked themselves to to the top of their fields yet, in today’s job market a person with no higher education but having expert knowledge are left out of the HR hiring pool for having no degree on a resume’. It seems to be such a game.

  • One team most likely drinks alcohol to excess, may use all sorts of drugs (legal and illegal), is probably obsessed with sex and parties all night long on a regular basis. The other has nothing to do but study. Maybe there is a lesson to be learned here?

    • Shut up. What have you achieved in your pathetic life. Some arguments are impossible to defend even by the worlds best Lawyers. How is sex and socializing a bad thing.

    • Bruce Valladares Who said anything about good or bad. I was simply stating that one group is likely to study hard and the other is likely to goof off.

    • Bruce Valladares And get a grip, Brucie, I’m certain nobody has come even close to your accomplishments.

    • Wow, Bruce. If that’s what you took from Ron’s comparison, you clearly missed the point. -.-‘ grow the hell up.

    • Yeah cause I’m sure people at Harvard don’t have to devote huge hours to their studies in order to stay enrolled. It’s not some little bullshit junior college. It’s one of the most prestigious Ivy League schools, be real.

    • Brett Blakeney and Yet failed against prisoners, Anyone have the video of the contest?

    • Wow … Another example of what money can’t buy. It can get a person a degree but, depending on the character and dedication of the individual, it can’t guarantee intelligence. Whereas, once again the poorest and the least able in society have risen by sheer determination, dedication and hunger to win. By the very thought of this debate one would have thought it would have been unfair and maybe even one sided. I think it’s honorable of the students to undertake such an engagement and I’m sure there are lessons for all that could be learned from this exhibition, or maybe not.

    • Thomas Penalber So why are they in prison in the first place?

    • Mark Smith they sure didn’t go for drinking and fun nights of sex lmao 😂 the point is not y they are there. Thet have all the time in the world to bettrr their self and I can bet you the Elite team thought it would be a cake walk and felt they could do it with their eyes close. And to the guy that said its an Ivy league and they all study alot bull shit. Those school are known for their cover up and bull shit. Yes u mist be smart to get im and smarter to graduate but they party and f up too. I know that for a fact.

    • Good question, Mark Smith. I want to believe there were crimes committed and they are paying their debit to society or maybe just maybe some are in there because of who or where they were. There have been a lot of video every day of officers caught covering up the facts and judges and lawyer on the take to fill prison quotas. But in any case, because they are there, society should give them an opportunity to improve themselves and maybe we would all be safer and more secure. These prisons are only cages that turn inmates from bad to worse instead of better then release them with no chance of finding work. It just seems we are going about this all wrong.

    • Who cares why they’re there! You don’t have to commit a serious crime to go to prison! Carrying weed in your pocket can get you sent to prison! (That’s changing now of course) point is they actually used their time in jail well. They bettered themselves instead of relying on their parents money to buy them into a big-name school. Just because its a famous or prestigious place does NOT mean the people there are intelligent people who work hard!

    • You’re right Willow, anyone that has access to books can learn. That’s the funny thing about knowledge it’s open to everyone. It’s strange to look at all of the successful people that neither completed nor went to college and those who have worked themselves to to the top of their fields yet, in today’s job market a person with no higher education but having expert knowledge are left out of the HR hiring pool for having no degree on a resume’. It seems to be such a game.

  • In all fairness to the Harvard team… they were debating Wu Tang lyrics.

    • The Wu Tang Clan’s lyrics don’t provoke thought?! They’re not atypical of rap lyrics…

    • No they didn’t

    • Roger Garcia “No they weren’t” would have been a more appropriate response. I am also aware of that fact, and appear to be much funnier than you.

    • Ha.

    • So the darkie’s aren’t as smart as you Daniel? Got it.

    • Hey Daniel Reynolds eat a jail house cock lmfao Kero Tofiles this bitch ass acting like he is cool with his sons of anarchy fuckin profile pic. He would be the guy who has to comb bubas chest hair you racist bitch lmfaoo

    • If you think that was racist Mena, you’ll probably think I’m transgenderphobic for the things I’d say about you having a vagina. Edward on the other hand sounds pretty racist with his use of the word “darkies”

    • Your a racist fag lmfaoooo look at your profile pic lmfaooo

    • 15 likes, 3 angry people who don’t get it, and a million people who don’t care. I’m cool with those numbers.

    • Kero Tofiles look at this man ^ lmfaooo

    • Good one with the vagina lmfao stfu

    • FYI, I grew up stomping out white power nazis for fun.

    • White power Nazis? Daniel Reynolds.. Really? Your using power ranger terminology smarty pants? Sit down somewhere

    • Yea u didn’t u just think ur tough because u got a bike lol

    • If we’re gonna split hairs I have like 5 1/2 bikes.

    • Kero, hahaha, now all I can picture is Mighty Morphin Power Nazi’s. I almost said white-power skinheads, but boneheads aren’t skinheads, they’re shitheads.

    • I’m sitting. You have my attention, sir.

    • I was tough Kero, 12 years ago maybe. Now, just fat and sad. I’m out of my mom’s basement though!

    • Daniel trolling, everyone getting mad is retarded to the fact.

    • Daniel Reynolds: that was really clever….you must be the pride of your family. I bet they sit around the campfire picking banjos just in awe of how smart their little country boy is…lol

    • CharlesyChio Baca How am I a country boy now? I was born and raised in Los Angeles. To think, I was getting accused of being the racist one for a sec, haha. Oh, and my family died in a fiery car crash. Parents and siblings, at least.

    • Daniel Reynolds dont let a bunch of faggot ass trolls fuck with ya remember they got nothing better to do but bitch cause someone else’s life is better then theirs i know trolls there weakness is them being ignored but most of the time they take it as a win and say that people are “butthurt” which is a very childish way of saying that the other person is the more mature person cause they have a life and can’t argue all day

    • How the fuck is this comment racist? Geezus you really have to tiptoe around motherfuckers these days or else you’ll offend someone. Aw shit I just offended people. Aw dagnabbit I did it again.

  • In all fairness to the Harvard team… they were debating Wu Tang lyrics.

    • The Wu Tang Clan’s lyrics don’t provoke thought?! They’re not atypical of rap lyrics…

    • No they didn’t

    • Roger Garcia “No they weren’t” would have been a more appropriate response. I am also aware of that fact, and appear to be much funnier than you.

    • Ha.

    • So the darkie’s aren’t as smart as you Daniel? Got it.

    • Hey Daniel Reynolds eat a jail house cock lmfao Kero Tofiles this bitch ass acting like he is cool with his sons of anarchy fuckin profile pic. He would be the guy who has to comb bubas chest hair you racist bitch lmfaoo

    • If you think that was racist Mena, you’ll probably think I’m transgenderphobic for the things I’d say about you having a vagina. Edward on the other hand sounds pretty racist with his use of the word “darkies”

    • Your a racist fag lmfaoooo look at your profile pic lmfaooo

    • 15 likes, 3 angry people who don’t get it, and a million people who don’t care. I’m cool with those numbers.

    • Kero Tofiles look at this man ^ lmfaooo

    • Good one with the vagina lmfao stfu

    • FYI, I grew up stomping out white power nazis for fun.

    • White power Nazis? Daniel Reynolds.. Really? Your using power ranger terminology smarty pants? Sit down somewhere

    • Yea u didn’t u just think ur tough because u got a bike lol

    • If we’re gonna split hairs I have like 5 1/2 bikes.

    • Kero, hahaha, now all I can picture is Mighty Morphin Power Nazi’s. I almost said white-power skinheads, but boneheads aren’t skinheads, they’re shitheads.

    • I’m sitting. You have my attention, sir.

    • I was tough Kero, 12 years ago maybe. Now, just fat and sad. I’m out of my mom’s basement though!

    • Daniel trolling, everyone getting mad is retarded to the fact.

    • Daniel Reynolds: that was really clever….you must be the pride of your family. I bet they sit around the campfire picking banjos just in awe of how smart their little country boy is…lol

    • CharlesyChio Baca How am I a country boy now? I was born and raised in Los Angeles. To think, I was getting accused of being the racist one for a sec, haha. Oh, and my family died in a fiery car crash. Parents and siblings, at least.

    • Daniel Reynolds dont let a bunch of faggot ass trolls fuck with ya remember they got nothing better to do but bitch cause someone else’s life is better then theirs i know trolls there weakness is them being ignored but most of the time they take it as a win and say that people are “butthurt” which is a very childish way of saying that the other person is the more mature person cause they have a life and can’t argue all day

    • How the fuck is this comment racist? Geezus you really have to tiptoe around motherfuckers these days or else you’ll offend someone. Aw shit I just offended people. Aw dagnabbit I did it again.

  • In all fairness to the Harvard team… they were debating Wu Tang lyrics.

    • The Wu Tang Clan’s lyrics don’t provoke thought?! They’re not atypical of rap lyrics…

    • No they didn’t

    • Roger Garcia “No they weren’t” would have been a more appropriate response. I am also aware of that fact, and appear to be much funnier than you.

    • Ha.

    • So the darkie’s aren’t as smart as you Daniel? Got it.

    • Hey Daniel Reynolds eat a jail house cock lmfao Kero Tofiles this bitch ass acting like he is cool with his sons of anarchy fuckin profile pic. He would be the guy who has to comb bubas chest hair you racist bitch lmfaoo

    • If you think that was racist Mena, you’ll probably think I’m transgenderphobic for the things I’d say about you having a vagina. Edward on the other hand sounds pretty racist with his use of the word “darkies”

    • Your a racist fag lmfaoooo look at your profile pic lmfaooo

    • 15 likes, 3 angry people who don’t get it, and a million people who don’t care. I’m cool with those numbers.

    • Kero Tofiles look at this man ^ lmfaooo

    • Good one with the vagina lmfao stfu

    • FYI, I grew up stomping out white power nazis for fun.

    • White power Nazis? Daniel Reynolds.. Really? Your using power ranger terminology smarty pants? Sit down somewhere

    • Yea u didn’t u just think ur tough because u got a bike lol

    • If we’re gonna split hairs I have like 5 1/2 bikes.

    • Kero, hahaha, now all I can picture is Mighty Morphin Power Nazi’s. I almost said white-power skinheads, but boneheads aren’t skinheads, they’re shitheads.

    • I’m sitting. You have my attention, sir.

    • I was tough Kero, 12 years ago maybe. Now, just fat and sad. I’m out of my mom’s basement though!

    • Daniel trolling, everyone getting mad is retarded to the fact.

    • Daniel Reynolds: that was really clever….you must be the pride of your family. I bet they sit around the campfire picking banjos just in awe of how smart their little country boy is…lol

    • CharlesyChio Baca How am I a country boy now? I was born and raised in Los Angeles. To think, I was getting accused of being the racist one for a sec, haha. Oh, and my family died in a fiery car crash. Parents and siblings, at least.

    • Daniel Reynolds dont let a bunch of faggot ass trolls fuck with ya remember they got nothing better to do but bitch cause someone else’s life is better then theirs i know trolls there weakness is them being ignored but most of the time they take it as a win and say that people are “butthurt” which is a very childish way of saying that the other person is the more mature person cause they have a life and can’t argue all day

    • How the fuck is this comment racist? Geezus you really have to tiptoe around motherfuckers these days or else you’ll offend someone. Aw shit I just offended people. Aw dagnabbit I did it again.

  • So I would really like to see this. Is there a video?

  • So I would really like to see this. Is there a video?

  • So I would really like to see this. Is there a video?

  • I think the “punishment” for every non-violent offender (especially low level drug offenders) should be mandatory education. Where the person chooses what they want to study. And how can we do that? Where’s the money? It costs citizens and the state almost twice as much to send someone to a State or Fed Pen, than it is to put them through school. Then mandate a policy that companies cannot exclude low level felons from hiring exclusively on the grounds of the felony itself, due to it being a form of unfair discrimination.

    • I don’t think that would be constitutional; a private employer (especially in right to work states) maintains almost complete discretion in hiring decisions except when you tread into civil rights. It would be an uphill battle to argue that having a clean record is a civil right, to say the least. In this instance I think the “carrot” works better than the “stick” – offer genuine, noticeable tax breaks or rewards for hiring people with records

    • You’re trying to tell me that if I committed a felony of let’s say criminal threat, and 10 years later I apply for a job and get rejected because I’m simply a felon; and that’s not discrimination of some kind? That’s morally incomparable, and in my opinion is in violation of civil rights. Especially when we lock up 25% of our people that more than likely just become unable to be hired. That’s fucked up. That’s a terrible thing to hang over someone’s head and the denies proper rehabilitation for that person.

      How would you like it if you couldn’t have dinner at the family table for the rest of your life because of something you did when you were 4?… How’s that not discrimination that’s not only unethical but borderline prejudice.

    • But I do agree offering those tax breaks and such are great incentives, but the culture of how we view “felons” needs to change in this country as well.

    • But that was quality input. Even from a steelers fan. 😉 haha. I was bummed to see Big Ben get hurt!

    • Like I said, I don’t think having a clean record is a civil right, especially if you were convicted by a jury of your peers. I don’t think any court would carve out that right. I’m not saying that’s “fair” but the law doesn’t always work out to what we view as fair on a case by case basis. Someone with a clean record being denied a job in favor of a felon would also cry “unfair” under your scenario. Fairness is not the best scale, only legality according to our constitution. Your analogy is a bit off as well because juvenile records are (appropriately) disregarded upon majority. And thank you but I’m a big Vick fan anyway 🙂

    • My analogy is to put in perspective that everyone does things in their lives when they’re young and growing, but one event even if it wasn’t the greatest shouldn’t follow you around and hinder your progress in society forever (barring extreme circumstances). I agree and I apologize for not specifying that I don’t think a clean record is a civil right. But I believe having your record looked at objectively and without bias towards rejecting felons needs to be a civil right. And under my argument I could see how someone could cry foul if they have clean record and a business hires a felon over them. But at the same time it actually bolsters my argument. Because if someone with a low level felony (not murder, or rape, or sodomy, or child molestation; those would be another topic entirely), but low level felons, if they are more qualified for a job than one who doesn’t have blemish on their record, then the felon should be hired right? I’m saying that many businesses will reject well qualified people based on one incident in their past and hire someone much less qualified but has “stayed out of legal trouble.”

      -hope that make a little more sense. And yeah I’d like to see Vick do well again, he was one of my fav QBs until he decided having a dog fighting ring was a good idea. But he’s paid his dues on it, Leavenworth ain’t no joke.

    • love it!

    • Johnny McGowan that would be discrimination. the people with records are no different or special race of people. In many cases the only difference between a felon and non is the availability of a good family lawyer and or money. so now the well off get bonuses to continue discriminating.

    • I agree in principle. The problem is you’re advocating legislating that principle. I think a private employer should always have total discretion in hiring practices unless it violates a civil right. A business owner could hire a less qualified person just because they like their smile better. It’s not “fair” but like I said fairness in a case by case basis isn’t the proper standard

    • Rafael I think it falls more under discretion than discrimination, especially when we’re dealing with private employers

    • I do not agree with tax breaks/bonuses for discrimination because our penal system and view of “felons” sucks and needs to change.

    • Kellen Anderson well said, thanks.

    • But I don’t think there is legislation aiding felons like that… I could be wrong.

      If one can empirically prove that they were rejected for a job over a smile preference by the employer, that would end up in the Supreme Court so fast, so fast. But business have loopholes via certain phrasing or jargon that allows them to unfairly and discriminately reject felons and people with shitty smiles without being at fault for unfair hiring practices. That’s why I think needs to change. Employers needs more legitimate empirical reasons for not hiring someone. But I’m right with ya that trying to come up with a piece of legislation would be tough to word properly, I am siding with you on finding quality incentives for businesses to practice objective hiring processes. This a tough cookie but discussing it like this with openness and acceptance is how we find quality sustainable solutions!

    • It’s nice to have a genuine discussion with someone on here for once 🙂 like I said I agree with most of your points in principle, and as you recognize getting them properly worded for laws is the real challenge (I’m an attorney so I appreciate the opportunity to go down the rabbit hole on this thought experiment, thank you 🙂 )

    • Take away the label “felon” we are all human

    • Johnny anytime! I’m not nearly adept in the legal system as you are. So I always enjoy hearing from experts in fields that I have enthusiasm in. I hope I don’t sound too batshit crazy. I always want to find solutions for our society’s problems but keeping solutions rational and realistic when scaling them up to a national level is quite the fucking hill. 😂😂

    • great discussion guys 🙂

    • Every where I worked at , no violent felonies, no drug charges. Pending, time served? Didn’t matter. I always felt that there must be little faith in the system if you couldn’t trust someone before they were convicted, or after they served their sentence.

    • The answer to most labor discrimination problems is organized labor, or unions, an you will not change my view on them. A union is only as good as its members an their involvement . And what is the United States ? A union .

    • Wish I could like this ten times put a book and teach a man or woman a skill they can get out and use if they choose

  • I think the “punishment” for every non-violent offender (especially low level drug offenders) should be mandatory education. Where the person chooses what they want to study. And how can we do that? Where’s the money? It costs citizens and the state almost twice as much to send someone to a State or Fed Pen, than it is to put them through school. Then mandate a policy that companies cannot exclude low level felons from hiring exclusively on the grounds of the felony itself, due to it being a form of unfair discrimination.

    • I don’t think that would be constitutional; a private employer (especially in right to work states) maintains almost complete discretion in hiring decisions except when you tread into civil rights. It would be an uphill battle to argue that having a clean record is a civil right, to say the least. In this instance I think the “carrot” works better than the “stick” – offer genuine, noticeable tax breaks or rewards for hiring people with records

    • You’re trying to tell me that if I committed a felony of let’s say criminal threat, and 10 years later I apply for a job and get rejected because I’m simply a felon; and that’s not discrimination of some kind? That’s morally incomparable, and in my opinion is in violation of civil rights. Especially when we lock up 25% of our people that more than likely just become unable to be hired. That’s fucked up. That’s a terrible thing to hang over someone’s head and the denies proper rehabilitation for that person.

      How would you like it if you couldn’t have dinner at the family table for the rest of your life because of something you did when you were 4?… How’s that not discrimination that’s not only unethical but borderline prejudice.

    • But I do agree offering those tax breaks and such are great incentives, but the culture of how we view “felons” needs to change in this country as well.

    • But that was quality input. Even from a steelers fan. 😉 haha. I was bummed to see Big Ben get hurt!

    • Like I said, I don’t think having a clean record is a civil right, especially if you were convicted by a jury of your peers. I don’t think any court would carve out that right. I’m not saying that’s “fair” but the law doesn’t always work out to what we view as fair on a case by case basis. Someone with a clean record being denied a job in favor of a felon would also cry “unfair” under your scenario. Fairness is not the best scale, only legality according to our constitution. Your analogy is a bit off as well because juvenile records are (appropriately) disregarded upon majority. And thank you but I’m a big Vick fan anyway 🙂

    • My analogy is to put in perspective that everyone does things in their lives when they’re young and growing, but one event even if it wasn’t the greatest shouldn’t follow you around and hinder your progress in society forever (barring extreme circumstances). I agree and I apologize for not specifying that I don’t think a clean record is a civil right. But I believe having your record looked at objectively and without bias towards rejecting felons needs to be a civil right. And under my argument I could see how someone could cry foul if they have clean record and a business hires a felon over them. But at the same time it actually bolsters my argument. Because if someone with a low level felony (not murder, or rape, or sodomy, or child molestation; those would be another topic entirely), but low level felons, if they are more qualified for a job than one who doesn’t have blemish on their record, then the felon should be hired right? I’m saying that many businesses will reject well qualified people based on one incident in their past and hire someone much less qualified but has “stayed out of legal trouble.”

      -hope that make a little more sense. And yeah I’d like to see Vick do well again, he was one of my fav QBs until he decided having a dog fighting ring was a good idea. But he’s paid his dues on it, Leavenworth ain’t no joke.

    • love it!

    • Johnny McGowan that would be discrimination. the people with records are no different or special race of people. In many cases the only difference between a felon and non is the availability of a good family lawyer and or money. so now the well off get bonuses to continue discriminating.

    • I agree in principle. The problem is you’re advocating legislating that principle. I think a private employer should always have total discretion in hiring practices unless it violates a civil right. A business owner could hire a less qualified person just because they like their smile better. It’s not “fair” but like I said fairness in a case by case basis isn’t the proper standard

    • Rafael I think it falls more under discretion than discrimination, especially when we’re dealing with private employers

    • I do not agree with tax breaks/bonuses for discrimination because our penal system and view of “felons” sucks and needs to change.

    • Kellen Anderson well said, thanks.

    • But I don’t think there is legislation aiding felons like that… I could be wrong.

      If one can empirically prove that they were rejected for a job over a smile preference by the employer, that would end up in the Supreme Court so fast, so fast. But business have loopholes via certain phrasing or jargon that allows them to unfairly and discriminately reject felons and people with shitty smiles without being at fault for unfair hiring practices. That’s why I think needs to change. Employers needs more legitimate empirical reasons for not hiring someone. But I’m right with ya that trying to come up with a piece of legislation would be tough to word properly, I am siding with you on finding quality incentives for businesses to practice objective hiring processes. This a tough cookie but discussing it like this with openness and acceptance is how we find quality sustainable solutions!

    • It’s nice to have a genuine discussion with someone on here for once 🙂 like I said I agree with most of your points in principle, and as you recognize getting them properly worded for laws is the real challenge (I’m an attorney so I appreciate the opportunity to go down the rabbit hole on this thought experiment, thank you 🙂 )

    • Take away the label “felon” we are all human

    • Johnny anytime! I’m not nearly adept in the legal system as you are. So I always enjoy hearing from experts in fields that I have enthusiasm in. I hope I don’t sound too batshit crazy. I always want to find solutions for our society’s problems but keeping solutions rational and realistic when scaling them up to a national level is quite the fucking hill. 😂😂

    • great discussion guys 🙂

    • Every where I worked at , no violent felonies, no drug charges. Pending, time served? Didn’t matter. I always felt that there must be little faith in the system if you couldn’t trust someone before they were convicted, or after they served their sentence.

    • The answer to most labor discrimination problems is organized labor, or unions, an you will not change my view on them. A union is only as good as its members an their involvement . And what is the United States ? A union .

    • Wish I could like this ten times put a book and teach a man or woman a skill they can get out and use if they choose

  • I think the “punishment” for every non-violent offender (especially low level drug offenders) should be mandatory education. Where the person chooses what they want to study. And how can we do that? Where’s the money? It costs citizens and the state almost twice as much to send someone to a State or Fed Pen, than it is to put them through school. Then mandate a policy that companies cannot exclude low level felons from hiring exclusively on the grounds of the felony itself, due to it being a form of unfair discrimination.

    • I don’t think that would be constitutional; a private employer (especially in right to work states) maintains almost complete discretion in hiring decisions except when you tread into civil rights. It would be an uphill battle to argue that having a clean record is a civil right, to say the least. In this instance I think the “carrot” works better than the “stick” – offer genuine, noticeable tax breaks or rewards for hiring people with records

    • You’re trying to tell me that if I committed a felony of let’s say criminal threat, and 10 years later I apply for a job and get rejected because I’m simply a felon; and that’s not discrimination of some kind? That’s morally incomparable, and in my opinion is in violation of civil rights. Especially when we lock up 25% of our people that more than likely just become unable to be hired. That’s fucked up. That’s a terrible thing to hang over someone’s head and the denies proper rehabilitation for that person.

      How would you like it if you couldn’t have dinner at the family table for the rest of your life because of something you did when you were 4?… How’s that not discrimination that’s not only unethical but borderline prejudice.

    • But I do agree offering those tax breaks and such are great incentives, but the culture of how we view “felons” needs to change in this country as well.

    • But that was quality input. Even from a steelers fan. 😉 haha. I was bummed to see Big Ben get hurt!

    • Like I said, I don’t think having a clean record is a civil right, especially if you were convicted by a jury of your peers. I don’t think any court would carve out that right. I’m not saying that’s “fair” but the law doesn’t always work out to what we view as fair on a case by case basis. Someone with a clean record being denied a job in favor of a felon would also cry “unfair” under your scenario. Fairness is not the best scale, only legality according to our constitution. Your analogy is a bit off as well because juvenile records are (appropriately) disregarded upon majority. And thank you but I’m a big Vick fan anyway 🙂

    • My analogy is to put in perspective that everyone does things in their lives when they’re young and growing, but one event even if it wasn’t the greatest shouldn’t follow you around and hinder your progress in society forever (barring extreme circumstances). I agree and I apologize for not specifying that I don’t think a clean record is a civil right. But I believe having your record looked at objectively and without bias towards rejecting felons needs to be a civil right. And under my argument I could see how someone could cry foul if they have clean record and a business hires a felon over them. But at the same time it actually bolsters my argument. Because if someone with a low level felony (not murder, or rape, or sodomy, or child molestation; those would be another topic entirely), but low level felons, if they are more qualified for a job than one who doesn’t have blemish on their record, then the felon should be hired right? I’m saying that many businesses will reject well qualified people based on one incident in their past and hire someone much less qualified but has “stayed out of legal trouble.”

      -hope that make a little more sense. And yeah I’d like to see Vick do well again, he was one of my fav QBs until he decided having a dog fighting ring was a good idea. But he’s paid his dues on it, Leavenworth ain’t no joke.

    • love it!

    • Johnny McGowan that would be discrimination. the people with records are no different or special race of people. In many cases the only difference between a felon and non is the availability of a good family lawyer and or money. so now the well off get bonuses to continue discriminating.

    • I agree in principle. The problem is you’re advocating legislating that principle. I think a private employer should always have total discretion in hiring practices unless it violates a civil right. A business owner could hire a less qualified person just because they like their smile better. It’s not “fair” but like I said fairness in a case by case basis isn’t the proper standard

    • Rafael I think it falls more under discretion than discrimination, especially when we’re dealing with private employers

    • I do not agree with tax breaks/bonuses for discrimination because our penal system and view of “felons” sucks and needs to change.

    • Kellen Anderson well said, thanks.

    • But I don’t think there is legislation aiding felons like that… I could be wrong.

      If one can empirically prove that they were rejected for a job over a smile preference by the employer, that would end up in the Supreme Court so fast, so fast. But business have loopholes via certain phrasing or jargon that allows them to unfairly and discriminately reject felons and people with shitty smiles without being at fault for unfair hiring practices. That’s why I think needs to change. Employers needs more legitimate empirical reasons for not hiring someone. But I’m right with ya that trying to come up with a piece of legislation would be tough to word properly, I am siding with you on finding quality incentives for businesses to practice objective hiring processes. This a tough cookie but discussing it like this with openness and acceptance is how we find quality sustainable solutions!

    • It’s nice to have a genuine discussion with someone on here for once 🙂 like I said I agree with most of your points in principle, and as you recognize getting them properly worded for laws is the real challenge (I’m an attorney so I appreciate the opportunity to go down the rabbit hole on this thought experiment, thank you 🙂 )

    • Take away the label “felon” we are all human

    • Johnny anytime! I’m not nearly adept in the legal system as you are. So I always enjoy hearing from experts in fields that I have enthusiasm in. I hope I don’t sound too batshit crazy. I always want to find solutions for our society’s problems but keeping solutions rational and realistic when scaling them up to a national level is quite the fucking hill. 😂😂

    • great discussion guys 🙂

    • Every where I worked at , no violent felonies, no drug charges. Pending, time served? Didn’t matter. I always felt that there must be little faith in the system if you couldn’t trust someone before they were convicted, or after they served their sentence.

    • The answer to most labor discrimination problems is organized labor, or unions, an you will not change my view on them. A union is only as good as its members an their involvement . And what is the United States ? A union .

    • Wish I could like this ten times put a book and teach a man or woman a skill they can get out and use if they choose

  • Jazmin White privilege didn’t save them

    • All that privilege and silver spoons that fed them and they still got beat by rejects of society. Shame.

    • Lmao Nick, whyd you have to get all uppity and racist? He didn’t even say anything racist in the slightest son so sit the fuck down

    • Jeez it’s a joke.
      And this is an A & B conversation, so C your way out.

    • Nick Johnson did you even read your own statement? punctuation is important. I’m afraid you’ve made yourself look like an ignorant fool, oh sweet irony.

    • Hahaha that made me laugh.

    • I guess the Asian girl also benefited from white privilege?

    • Nick go back to tumblr

    • Feliks Gailitis HAHAHAHAHA! Well i guess Junior would not do well in any debate!

    • *too

    • What does my name have to do with anything?

    • I’m not arguing with anyone.

    • Wow. When you try to correct the spelling of another person’s name, you definitely lose any credibility. 😂 (as if Nick had any to begin with…)

    • ^ right? His page looks like a troll page

    • Did he block me? Because I can’t see his comments.

    • Did he block me? Because I can’t see his comments.

    • If a “top notch” education at one of the most prestigious universities in the world couldn’t save them, privilege didn’t stand a chance.

    • If a “top notch” education at one of the most prestigious universities in the world couldn’t save them, privilege didn’t stand a chance.

  • Jazmin White privilege didn’t save them

    • All that privilege and silver spoons that fed them and they still got beat by rejects of society. Shame.

    • Lmao Nick, whyd you have to get all uppity and racist? He didn’t even say anything racist in the slightest son so sit the fuck down

    • Jeez it’s a joke.
      And this is an A & B conversation, so C your way out.

    • Nick Johnson did you even read your own statement? punctuation is important. I’m afraid you’ve made yourself look like an ignorant fool, oh sweet irony.

    • Hahaha that made me laugh.

    • I guess the Asian girl also benefited from white privilege?

    • Nick go back to tumblr

    • Feliks Gailitis HAHAHAHAHA! Well i guess Junior would not do well in any debate!

    • *too

    • What does my name have to do with anything?

    • I’m not arguing with anyone.

    • Wow. When you try to correct the spelling of another person’s name, you definitely lose any credibility. 😂 (as if Nick had any to begin with…)

    • ^ right? His page looks like a troll page

    • Did he block me? Because I can’t see his comments.

    • If a “top notch” education at one of the most prestigious universities in the world couldn’t save them, privilege didn’t stand a chance.

  • Campus life is not living, it prepares you to live…they debated ones who lived. 😉

  • Campus life is not living, it prepares you to live…they debated ones who lived. 😉

  • Yusuf Akalin Marcus Starkensjö (Y)

  • Yusuf Akalin Marcus Starkensjö (Y)

  • Many of our presidents attended there too, so it’s no surprise since they’re all such morons.

  • Many of our presidents attended there too, so it’s no surprise since they’re all such morons.

  • They debated should children of undocumented aliens be denied into school.

  • They debated should children of undocumented aliens be denied into school.

  • But what was the topic of debate?

  • But what was the topic of debate?

  • But what does it mean to win a debate? Maybe it depends more on the intelligence of the judges. Or the objectivity of the judges–like winning a criminal case, for example.

  • But what does it mean to win a debate? Maybe it depends more on the intelligence of the judges. Or the objectivity of the judges–like winning a criminal case, for example.

  • … Why We laugh at white supremacists.. Our “worst”, against their ‘best’.. And all I hear is excuses..

    • Always the victim?

    • We can do this all day…

    • wow

    • If you think Harvard students are the “best” we have to offer, you’re a fool. XD you act as though race has anything to do with a person intelligence. Btw, people of every race and ethnicity work their ass off to get into Ivy League schools, not just ol’ whitey. c; maybe open up your mind a little before commenting.

    • Raeann Kristen Kiker.. Don’t care for, nor did I ask your opinion.. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would’ve saw the colors I represent & wouldn’t have wasted your time with a comment.. As a “cashier at CVS”.. I doubt you have alot of experience with Ivy – League schools..

    • Bravo to the inmates! They educated themselves to a point in which they dominated over students from one of the nation’s most “prestigious” universities. Harold, I can’t say for certain, because I don’t know you on a personal level, but why do you come off as such a racist douche? What do you gain from distinguishing people based on looks? I mean, I know racism is still a raging fire throughout the entire world, but why add more fuel? Now, the same goes for Terry. Anyone who takes the life of another, without it being in self defense or to save the life of an innocent, is a total piece of shit. Race doesn’t mean shit.

    • So why were they in prison in th first place?

    • Just saying what if the picture showed three white prisoners….everyone always has to make it a color thing…rediculas….that’s not what this was about. It’s about….3 prisoners that won against 3 Harvard students…that could have been black and not for nothing these could just be random off line pics to represent what it was showing. Doesn’t mean it was these exact people. ..especially because these look like modeled pics. They are too perfect of pictures….Google the images….

    • Always has to be a black to throw the race card out there. You dont see any whites throwing the race card. In a instance where blacks are praised still the race card is used. You wonder why you have seperated yourselfs. Its like a group of friends and some are drama they are excluded.

    • I laugh at the comments on here.. My comment is Clearly directed towards, “White Supremacists”.. So if your DumbAss had a response…..

    • Kill whitey!

  • … Why We laugh at white supremacists.. Our “worst”, against their ‘best’.. And all I hear is excuses..

    • Always the victim?

    • We can do this all day…

    • wow

    • If you think Harvard students are the “best” we have to offer, you’re a fool. XD you act as though race has anything to do with a person intelligence. Btw, people of every race and ethnicity work their ass off to get into Ivy League schools, not just ol’ whitey. c; maybe open up your mind a little before commenting.

    • Raeann Kristen Kiker.. Don’t care for, nor did I ask your opinion.. If you were half as smart as you think you are, you would’ve saw the colors I represent & wouldn’t have wasted your time with a comment.. As a “cashier at CVS”.. I doubt you have alot of experience with Ivy – League schools..

    • Bravo to the inmates! They educated themselves to a point in which they dominated over students from one of the nation’s most “prestigious” universities. Harold, I can’t say for certain, because I don’t know you on a personal level, but why do you come off as such a racist douche? What do you gain from distinguishing people based on looks? I mean, I know racism is still a raging fire throughout the entire world, but why add more fuel? Now, the same goes for Terry. Anyone who takes the life of another, without it being in self defense or to save the life of an innocent, is a total piece of shit. Race doesn’t mean shit.

    • So why were they in prison in th first place?

    • Just saying what if the picture showed three white prisoners….everyone always has to make it a color thing…rediculas….that’s not what this was about. It’s about….3 prisoners that won against 3 Harvard students…that could have been black and not for nothing these could just be random off line pics to represent what it was showing. Doesn’t mean it was these exact people. ..especially because these look like modeled pics. They are too perfect of pictures….Google the images….

    • Always has to be a black to throw the race card out there. You dont see any whites throwing the race card. In a instance where blacks are praised still the race card is used. You wonder why you have seperated yourselfs. Its like a group of friends and some are drama they are excluded.

    • I laugh at the comments on here.. My comment is Clearly directed towards, “White Supremacists”.. So if your DumbAss had a response…..

    • Kill whitey!

  • Justin Headrick… Credentials…

  • Justin Headrick… Credentials…

  • SUPERB ,, AND WELL DONE ! THE EMBARRASSMENT AND EGO DAMAGE WAS UTTERLY DEVASTATING …

  • SUPERB ,, AND WELL DONE ! THE EMBARRASSMENT AND EGO DAMAGE WAS UTTERLY DEVASTATING …

  • who has a transcript of the debate?

  • who has a transcript of the debate?

  • Its a good thing we have so many laws against the poor. We wouldn’t want to many intelligent people walking the streets.

  • Its a good thing we have so many laws against the poor. We wouldn’t want to many intelligent people walking the streets.

  • Larry Collinson

  • Larry Collinson

  • Who would you hire? Let’s debate.

  • Who would you hire? Let’s debate.

  • Most serial killers are brilliant… hence how they get away with it for so long.

  • Most serial killers are brilliant… hence how they get away with it for so long.

  • Sem van Hoogstraten

  • Sem van Hoogstraten

  • As a former debater id love to watch this, why is this attracting so may racists from both sides? They did great!

  • As a former debater id love to watch this, why is this attracting so may racists from both sides? They did great!

  • Too much prison time makes you a masterdebater

  • Too much prison time makes you a masterdebater

  • it looks like black people are smarter than white people

    • If that’s what you took from this post, you must be completely stupid.

    • Didnt read the post im just judging the meme pictures.

    • Raeann Kristen Kiker if you think thats what i took from this post you are the one that is completley stupid

    • What this post is trying to say with a poor meme is somthing ive been saying for a long time in reguards to education and inelligence and there diffrence

  • it looks like black people are smarter than white people

    • If that’s what you took from this post, you must be completely stupid.

    • Didnt read the post im just judging the meme pictures.

    • Raeann Kristen Kiker if you think thats what i took from this post you are the one that is completley stupid

    • What this post is trying to say with a poor meme is somthing ive been saying for a long time in reguards to education and inelligence and there diffrence

  • wow well done the prison team

  • wow well done the prison team

  • Privilage and education should not be mistaken for intelligence, look at the privilaged , educated shiteheads we all have for leaders!

    • If like to agree but I’m not convinced education or lack of it has to do with being a political puppet or not. I do believe electing them is largely the voters responsibility to educate them selves with the issues . Never mind im so discussed at the system I can’t even believe that shit!

    • Well you pretty much need money to even run… So

  • Privilage and education should not be mistaken for intelligence, look at the privilaged , educated shiteheads we all have for leaders!

    • If like to agree but I’m not convinced education or lack of it has to do with being a political puppet or not. I do believe electing them is largely the voters responsibility to educate them selves with the issues . Never mind im so discussed at the system I can’t even believe that shit!

    • Well you pretty much need money to even run… So

  • The system is rigged against free thinkers. Sadly, they’re probably some of the most philosophical amongst us. Left to ponder things greater than themselves on the fringes of society, instead of the halls of academia. It’s intentional.

  • The system is rigged against free thinkers. Sadly, they’re probably some of the most philosophical amongst us. Left to ponder things greater than themselves on the fringes of society, instead of the halls of academia. It’s intentional.

  • All you need is a book to be educated.

    Not a over priced piece of paper… Aka degree

  • All you need is a book to be educated.

    Not a over priced piece of paper… Aka degree

  • Tremendous . Needs to be added… , I am zero % surprised.

  • Tremendous . Needs to be added… , I am zero % surprised.

  • In school you learn obedience and conformity in prison you learn survival.

  • In school you learn obedience and conformity in prison you learn survival.

  • Experience is the best teacher.

  • Experience is the best teacher.

  • My favorite statement in the movie “Jaws” was when Quint (Robert Shaw) told Hooper (Richard Dreyfuss) in an argument over the biting in half piano wire used along with the fishing line; ” It proves that you wealthy college boys don’t have the education enough to admit when you’re wrong”. ..

    • Quint was so smart he was eaten by Bruce. Hooper survived. Who was smarter?

  • My favorite statement in the movie “Jaws” was when Quint (Robert Shaw) told Hooper (Richard Dreyfuss) in an argument over the biting in half piano wire used along with the fishing line; ” It proves that you wealthy college boys don’t have the education enough to admit when you’re wrong”. ..

    • Quint was so smart he was eaten by Bruce. Hooper survived. Who was smarter?

  • One group bought ideas the other learned them

  • One group bought ideas the other learned them

  • So true

  • So true

  • I’m not sure why this is surprising. The students have not really lived yet, or put their education into practice.

  • I’m not sure why this is surprising. The students have not really lived yet, or put their education into practice.

  • wow

  • wow

  • Also, never confuse education with morals and/or ethics.

  • Also, never confuse education with morals and/or ethics.

  • altho i would note that in prison what you can focus on and work on is pretty limited…. But, Within those areas prisoners tend to get really good at them.

  • altho i would note that in prison what you can focus on and work on is pretty limited…. But, Within those areas prisoners tend to get really good at them.

  • Is there a video link to the debate. would love to see it.

  • Is there a video link to the debate. would love to see it.

  • Good for them 😀
    Still not smart enough to stay out of prison thou….

  • Good for them 😀
    Still not smart enough to stay out of prison thou….

  • But isn’t the illusion of knowledge, ignorance in itself? Good quote though!

  • But isn’t the illusion of knowledge, ignorance in itself? Good quote though!

  • But isn’t the illusion of knowledge, ignorance in itself? Good quote though!

  • Wow

  • Wow

  • What was the topic of debate?

  • if i was on that debate team against a bunch of prison murderers,,, i’d make sure they won. education taught them to be smart enough to make sure the prisoners won. the guy on the right.. i think he’s saying,,, “i wish they would”

  • if i was on that debate team against a bunch of prison murderers,,, i’d make sure they won. education taught them to be smart enough to make sure the prisoners won. the guy on the right.. i think he’s saying,,, “i wish they would”

  • AWESOME!!!

  • AWESOME!!!

  • You know what’s better than beating a Harvard debate team. Not being a locked up violent criminal.

    • define violent criminal. people can be sent to jail for any number of reasons. Some people are in jail right for committing ‘misdemeanors’ or breaking laws we’ve already dissolved. Most of the drugs in my county are estimated to by moved through (not just sold in) local universities. how many unwanted pregnancies come from college night life? People are often injured or in rare cases have died while pledging. are you certain you’re afraid the right people? Because the ones I just tore up are running my country.

    • Are you implying that the kids on the Harvard debate team are criminals or are you just going on a rant generalizing college kids as criminals?

  • You know what’s better than beating a Harvard debate team. Not being a locked up violent criminal.

    • define violent criminal. people can be sent to jail for any number of reasons. Some people are in jail right for committing ‘misdemeanors’ or breaking laws we’ve already dissolved. Most of the drugs in my county are estimated to by moved through (not just sold in) local universities. how many unwanted pregnancies come from college night life? People are often injured or in rare cases have died while pledging. are you certain you’re afraid the right people? Because the ones I just tore up are running my country.

    • Are you implying that the kids on the Harvard debate team are criminals or are you just going on a rant generalizing college kids as criminals?

  • Was it really the Continuing Ed school? If so, that’s still kind of apples & oranges. Nonetheless, congrats to the victors!

  • Was it really the Continuing Ed school? If so, that’s still kind of apples & oranges. Nonetheless, congrats to the victors!

  • amen to reform!

  • amen to reform!

  • If you measure a shark by its ability to climb a tree, it will fail every time

  • If you measure a shark by its ability to climb a tree, it will fail every time

  • This resonates so hard lol

  • This resonates so hard lol

  • thats because the prisons are full of people who have been locked up on nothing more than police state, draconian laws that are in line with the dictatorships rule

  • thats because the prisons are full of people who have been locked up on nothing more than police state, draconian laws that are in line with the dictatorships rule

  • Never let school get in the way of your education.

  • Never let school get in the way of your education.

  • Y

  • They don’t hand out red solo cups or fuck goats in prison.

    • They just fuck each other.

    • They do. But banging another dude and fucking a goat/ being drunk all the time with beerpong are 2 very different things. Gay people get alot done in society. Goat fucking alcoholic numbskulls only take.

  • They don’t hand out red solo cups or fuck goats in prison.

    • They just fuck each other.

    • They do. But banging another dude and fucking a goat/ being drunk all the time with beerpong are 2 very different things. Gay people get alot done in society. Goat fucking alcoholic numbskulls only take.

  • Glendon Cameron

  • Glendon Cameron

  • Abhijith Gopan I guess I know where I’m going

  • Abhijith Gopan I guess I know where I’m going

  • Congratulations!

  • Congratulations!

  • To be fair though, prisoners have more free time than anyone lol

  • To be fair though, prisoners have more free time than anyone lol

  • the ability to memorized a subject and repeat it does not make you smart…….chancellor Williams “the destruction of the black civilization”

  • the ability to memorized a subject and repeat it does not make you smart…….chancellor Williams “the destruction of the black civilization”

  • Amazing

  • Amazing

  • It’s sad that some of the most brilliant minds are locked up in cages. Then if/when they are released, they cannot get jobs, have a home to live in, and usually have to go back to crime just to make ends meet. “Justice” system my ass!

  • It’s sad that some of the most brilliant minds are locked up in cages. Then if/when they are released, they cannot get jobs, have a home to live in, and usually have to go back to crime just to make ends meet. “Justice” system my ass!

  • Most academics have no clue what it takes to get along in the real world and lack a lot of common sense!!!!

  • Most academics have no clue what it takes to get along in the real world and lack a lot of common sense!!!!

  • Josh O’Sullivan

  • Josh O’Sullivan

  • Woah… Im from my school’s debate and drama. 1. Im studying acting. Its hard. 2. Debate is really stressful… I mean, holy shit debate is so fcking stressful!!!! They won!! They each deserve 3-5 cookies for that….

  • Woah… Im from my school’s debate and drama. 1. Im studying acting. Its hard. 2. Debate is really stressful… I mean, holy shit debate is so fcking stressful!!!! They won!! They each deserve 3-5 cookies for that….

  • And the reason the middle east is such a mess is because people from Harvard control foreign policy

  • And the reason the middle east is such a mess is because people from Harvard control foreign policy

  • Chalana Portillo

  • Chalana Portillo

  • They should make a movie out of it.

  • They should make a movie out of it.

  • Ayla Div see I am smart

    • You were until your last comment about what you thought when saw me walking down the aisle..

  • Ayla Div see I am smart

    • You were until your last comment about what you thought when saw me walking down the aisle..

  • It must not be any other way… After all with ‘all the time to study’, it is just fair.

  • It must not be any other way… After all with ‘all the time to study’, it is just fair.

  • Kylie

  • Kylie

  • Great debaters make great lawyers, not necessarily great scientists.

  • Great debaters make great lawyers, not necessarily great scientists.

  • “I’ll cut you”, is not a fair debate strategy. lol

  • “I’ll cut you”, is not a fair debate strategy. lol

  • Just because their in prison does not mean they don’t have intelligence

  • Just because their in prison does not mean they don’t have intelligence

  • You can be educated , intelligent, and be locked up in this country more than any other!

  • You can be educated , intelligent, and be locked up in this country more than any other!

  • SOOO true Mike MacGregor.

  • SOOO true Mike MacGregor.

  • Masterdebaters.

  • Masterdebaters.

  • Those who give up Liberty for security, deserve neither. Nowadays, I disagree with both sides, and create my own reality, luck, opportunity etc. The machine uses logic gates, to lead the energy to a specific source. The energy will lead itself if the choices are taken away. That’s where we are at. I don’t want to vote for any of these people, yet the few choices are presented to me. No logic.

  • whoopy doo they do what they do?

  • whoopy doo they do what they do?

  • Must have been common sense questions.

  • Must have been common sense questions.

  • always remember Alok Dahal

  • always remember Alok Dahal

  • Education is not schooling!

  • Education is not schooling!

  • Love this. I have always said that some of the stupidest people I have met have a degree in some or another. But 2 white guys and an Asian against 3 black hustlers wasn’t really a fair fight ? Just saying. LOL

  • Love this. I have always said that some of the stupidest people I have met have a degree in some or another. But 2 white guys and an Asian against 3 black hustlers wasn’t really a fair fight ? Just saying. LOL

  • I don’t know what’s more surprising the fact that most people are surprised at this.. or the fact that people think if you’re in prison you are stupid…. the odds may be in favor of those with opportunity, but it’s usually the ones with something to prove that rise and continue rising

    • Some of the most intelligent men I’ve known are street scholars. If your willing to learn, the street can teach you more than school but at the same time I would never recommend it to somebody cause you’ll also end up in lock or in a grave.

  • I don’t know what’s more surprising the fact that most people are surprised at this.. or the fact that people think if you’re in prison you are stupid…. the odds may be in favor of those with opportunity, but it’s usually the ones with something to prove that rise and continue rising

    • Some of the most intelligent men I’ve known are street scholars. If your willing to learn, the street can teach you more than school but at the same time I would never recommend it to somebody cause you’ll also end up in lock or in a grave.

  • College=way overrated

  • College=way overrated

  • I know: only intelligent people can educate themselves, lol

  • I know: only intelligent people can educate themselves, lol

  • the criminal mind is expert at spin

  • the criminal mind is expert at spin

  • I’ll give it two years until they make a feelgood movie about this with some inspirational message

  • I’ll give it two years until they make a feelgood movie about this with some inspirational message

  • Hope they were better than Towson team

  • Hope they were better than Towson team

  • When you have nothing but time you hone your skills!!! With free tuition, 3 square meals, and free roof over your head. Its the least they can do! To become a positive in society. Here is a free thought! Offer free tuition to those that have done right by society their entire lives! I guarantee that those that want to excel will! With out the stress of ridiculous student loans.

    • The meals aint square & nothing in there is just “free”. Youd rather pay then go thru what they go thru in their just to make it back & forth from school, or back & forth from anywhere for that matter.

    • David Gonzalez, obviously, you know absolutely nothing about prison life. I’ve been involved with a prison ministry here in Tennessee for the past 8 years now, and some inmates pay $500 a month for housing. You may want to educate yourself before you speak on this subject.

    • Darrell Short clearly you have no clue what is cost us all to maintain an inmate.
      Here is a link from the New York Times. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html?referer=&_r=0

      $168k per inmate paid by the tax payers in New York, the average around the country is $31k per year. The same people that go to school and pay for school have jobs and pay allot more then $500 per month in housing. When you say some pay $500, what do the rest pay nothing? Educate yourself about the reality of the world we live in, 75% of the prison population could not get a job that would pay them 30k per year.

    • Here is another thought! How about released inmates pay back the 31k per year it cost to maintain them to taxpayers. Just like students have to pay back their student loans.

    • Yeah? How are they going to afford to pay that back? You think think they’ll give a damn about paying that back? Then if they don’t pay it back, your highly intelligent response will be “send them to prison”…and the cycle continues. David Gonzalez

    • Thats just it they don’t care because its free!
      Break that cycle by holding people accountable for their actions. If you choose to go to school you are lent money and have to pay it back. So if you choose to commit
      a crime and are sent to prison you should pay that cost back. People take free for granted and appreciate what they work hard for and pay for and that motivates people to do better! Kevin Richard Joeseph

    • and what about those who are wrongly incarcerated?

    • The wrongly incarcerated usually sue the city and are paid if in fact they really were wrongly incarcerated! Its the reverse effect. All I am saying is make people accountable for their actions all the way around. All this started because a prison debate team is proclaimed to be more intelligent then Harvard debate team. I believe that a debate is not about intelligence its about knowing how to pounce on an opportunity of vulnerability and being well informed of the subject. The fact that they have the opportunity to get an education for free, 3 square meals and a roof over their heads at an average cost to all of us of 31k per inmate per year is not right. If people are forced to repay their school loans then released inmates should repay for their education, housing, food, and medical bills. Its as if we reward them for committing a crime.

    • Actual cost of warehousing people, is $7.500 annually, the rest is profit for the prison industrial complex, and when we privatize all of our prisons they will be one of the best investments on the market, RECESSION PROOF !!!!

    • I actually like the idea David has. If they actually committed a crime have them pay it back. I won’t say send them back to jail. But they definitely can deal with the debt like students deal with student loan debt. I’m sure they would rather pay back the state through their money then paying through their time in prison. If students and others who want better have to pay then the ones are NOT wrongly incarcerated can also pay. They made the choice to screw up, they can pay back society when they get out.

    • John, wow the actual cost is crazy, I would love to know what the actual cost of obtaining a Bachelors degree would be. People are herded like cattle to obtain an education to be able to earn more and are stuck with a lifetime debt to pay back these inflated cost of education.

    • Aaron, glad you agree. I was taught that if you stepped on crap you had to clean your shoes, next time I would be more careful where I walked. My best friend fell into a life of drug dealing for the glamour, then it became a habit, and the habit became unaffordable. He started with petty theft and that led larger schemes. Eventually was caught and has been in prison for 6 years and has 9 more years to complete his sentence. I am the only friend that maintains contact with him and from the conversation tone, I can tell he is a different person but not in a good way. He has sharpened his skills in manipulation and strategy. Once he is released he will be deported and I am sure will fall right back into the same path as before, believing in his head that he will not get caught next time. Zero responsibility or interest to pay back this country for the bourdon he has caused us all. 15 years @ 31k = $465,000.00 money wasted that will never get repaid.

    • Okay, let’s say you do hold them accountable. They start their installments, then they suddenly don’t feel like paying anynore. How do you punish them? They’ve been to PRISON, what could you possibly do that would be worse? Kill them? David Gonzalez

    • Kevin it seems like you have never had a financial obligation in your life.
      Here are a few examples of what happens.

      1)Banks lend money for houses, cars, business and if the person does not pay, first it affects there credit, and if they continue to not pay the lender takes the house, repos the car, or takes possession of the business.

      2) students are lent money to pay for school and housing. Once they graduate they must begin to pay back the money they borrowed. If they decide not to pay then their wages are garnished. Some people will respond to a drop in credit score. Some will respond to the shame of wage garnish.
      In the end we must break the cycle of rewarding people for nothing in return. We as a country have fallen into a belief that we are owed everything. We should break that cycle and teach our youth that they must work and pay for what they want and be a bourdon on the rest of society. Kevin Richard Joseph Those that care and understand what they did was wrong will help educate other to not follow in their foot steps. The problem will not fix itself overnight. The plan is not perfect and in the end was my personal opinion. Since you feel so offended with my thought why don’t you come up with a solution Kevin Richard Joseph

    • David, I don’t know”in dollars ” what the actual cost of a bachelors degree is” that is like asking what is the actual cost of a car “too many variables ” I do know,if you have access to the internet, most of the knowledge is stored there, you just have to filter out the BS. We don’t need over priced college, with their billion dollar sports scams and their FOR PROFIT motives, if we had a way of testing proficiency in areas that employers are looking for. same thing for money lenders that are looking for degrees in business and accounting in order to lend money to start up businesses. or perhaps college should just be a for cost investment, you pay professors for their time and you pay for overhead cost & maintenance of the buildings you are in while you are learning, or online college. There is a big difference between “COST” and “ACTUAL COST ” as in the case of big Pharma, one example, the”ACTUAL COST ” of manufacturing a pill for asthma is 45 cents, then they turn around and sell it on the market for 25 dollars, in order to maximize profits for themselves & investors, ” COST” So why not remove the profit motive from warehousing people & and educating people ? But I guess a good capitalist just can’t pass up an opportunity to make money, After all I live in a country where people that can save your life if you have cancer or need an operation will let you DIE if they can’t make a profit from from your illness !!

    • I am in no way offended by your thoughts. Sorry if I came off that way.

      What I am trying to tell you is, what you’re suggesting would not work. How do you teach a criminal to “pay pack” what you feel he owes? I’m not saying all would not oblige if something as crazy as you suggested happened. But what would be the consequence to those who just don’t care? Bad credit? I don’t mean to attack you at all David Gonzalez, you seem to be an intelligent person, just challenging your opinion is all.

    • I agree John Albrecht as a business man I understand that people provide product/services for profits and I am ok with that. The original issue here is that a prison debate beat a Harvard debate team and are being proclaimed as more intelligent. What I’m saying is that they as prisoners are being rewarded with a free education and people who do right by society or obligated to pay for their education. I believe they should be obligated to reimburse the tax payers for the free education being offered to them and the unnecessary cost of having to house them, let alone guard them, feed them, medical and dental. Its ridiculous.

      http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/. This guy is on point! Crime Rate dropped 57% from 2002 to 2012. Word gets around that. Prison is not a vacation you will work and struggle to pay you debt to society.

    • Kevin its about breaking the cycle!!! A thug will always be thug till the day he dies. But if we continue to allow that mentality that they go away a few years and then are free to roam the streets. No! Implement a structure of education and facilitate job opportunities and garnish their wages for a set amount of time. Eventually starting a curb in generations to come.

    • david i have not heard you say anything about crooks that have that can afford great lawyers. and the crooks who we say hi to everyday but they did not get caught. money keep a lot of people out of jail too. in that case the whole wall st, congress etc.. she be in jail. right is wrong is wrong. somebody who got caught caught and went to jail is no different from somebody who did not get caught

    • Kaye Suga please read the original comment again. Yes! I agree with money keeps some people out of jail but eventually their luck runs out! Either the world they live in catches up with them or somebody gives them up to save themselves. One thing is for sure eventually they all go down from the thug on the street to Martha Stewart. If you commit the crime our justice system although not perfect will come through. The few that did get away will have to answer to a higher power.

      I believe in teaching people to be better human beings! I think you do too!
      We have to teach our youths to be responsible for their actions and to respect others and to take pride in themselves and to help others.
      Its better to give then to receive.

    • I definitely agree with you that the mentality that they had prior to going to jail should be broken. Who receives the payments, though? Tax payers pay for inmates “cost of living”, I guarantee we would not see a dime of any of it.

      The issue with prison systems is that men/women are put in prison and forgotten about. After they’re behind those bars, nobody gives a crap about them. There should be a system to help break their mentality, but not so they can come out and “pay back” their cost of living. They’ve spent enough time looking over their shoulders for other inmates AND prison guards! To me, that is punishment enough.

      I agree with you, there should be some kind of institution to help them become more productive members of society but the focus should not be to pay back money to the “tax payers”. We both know we wouldn’t see that money back lol David Gonzalez.

    • Here is something else to think about David Gonzalez. Imagine, woman or man who was wrongfully convicted and they just couldn’t prove their innocence. How fair is it for that person to have to pay money back for being WRONGFULLY convicted? Again, institution for changing prisoners’ mentalities, but having to pay money back….so many cons to your idea my friend.

    • Kevin if a person is wrongfully convicted and later proven innocent they usually file suit and are compensated. If you were wrongfully accused and couldn’t prove your innocence then continue your penance and take the opportunity to finish school or learn a trade and if you have already accomplished these goals in your life then help to teach others. No system is perfect!

      Imagine this! Kevin puts a solution on the table rather then criticize every angle. I would love to hear your plan.

    • I’ve discussed this topic extensively with friends, and what we’ve always agreed on is the need for an institution to help those incarcerated become more productive members of society once they’re released.

      Although, I’d rather see more action taken to help the youth not end up in prison/juvi. A lot of the youth in urban areas end up in jail, and it is becoming a major issue! Save the youth so they have a better chance at life. David Gonzalez

  • When you have nothing but time you hone your skills!!! With free tuition, 3 square meals, and free roof over your head. Its the least they can do! To become a positive in society. Here is a free thought! Offer free tuition to those that have done right by society their entire lives! I guarantee that those that want to excel will! With out the stress of ridiculous student loans.

    • The meals aint square & nothing in there is just “free”. Youd rather pay then go thru what they go thru in their just to make it back & forth from school, or back & forth from anywhere for that matter.

    • David Gonzalez, obviously, you know absolutely nothing about prison life. I’ve been involved with a prison ministry here in Tennessee for the past 8 years now, and some inmates pay $500 a month for housing. You may want to educate yourself before you speak on this subject.

    • Darrell Short clearly you have no clue what is cost us all to maintain an inmate.
      Here is a link from the New York Times. http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/nyregion/citys-annual-cost-per-inmate-is-nearly-168000-study-says.html?referer=&_r=0

      $168k per inmate paid by the tax payers in New York, the average around the country is $31k per year. The same people that go to school and pay for school have jobs and pay allot more then $500 per month in housing. When you say some pay $500, what do the rest pay nothing? Educate yourself about the reality of the world we live in, 75% of the prison population could not get a job that would pay them 30k per year.

    • Here is another thought! How about released inmates pay back the 31k per year it cost to maintain them to taxpayers. Just like students have to pay back their student loans.

    • Yeah? How are they going to afford to pay that back? You think think they’ll give a damn about paying that back? Then if they don’t pay it back, your highly intelligent response will be “send them to prison”…and the cycle continues. David Gonzalez

    • Thats just it they don’t care because its free!
      Break that cycle by holding people accountable for their actions. If you choose to go to school you are lent money and have to pay it back. So if you choose to commit
      a crime and are sent to prison you should pay that cost back. People take free for granted and appreciate what they work hard for and pay for and that motivates people to do better! Kevin Richard Joeseph

    • and what about those who are wrongly incarcerated?

    • The wrongly incarcerated usually sue the city and are paid if in fact they really were wrongly incarcerated! Its the reverse effect. All I am saying is make people accountable for their actions all the way around. All this started because a prison debate team is proclaimed to be more intelligent then Harvard debate team. I believe that a debate is not about intelligence its about knowing how to pounce on an opportunity of vulnerability and being well informed of the subject. The fact that they have the opportunity to get an education for free, 3 square meals and a roof over their heads at an average cost to all of us of 31k per inmate per year is not right. If people are forced to repay their school loans then released inmates should repay for their education, housing, food, and medical bills. Its as if we reward them for committing a crime.

    • Actual cost of warehousing people, is $7.500 annually, the rest is profit for the prison industrial complex, and when we privatize all of our prisons they will be one of the best investments on the market, RECESSION PROOF !!!!

    • I actually like the idea David has. If they actually committed a crime have them pay it back. I won’t say send them back to jail. But they definitely can deal with the debt like students deal with student loan debt. I’m sure they would rather pay back the state through their money then paying through their time in prison. If students and others who want better have to pay then the ones are NOT wrongly incarcerated can also pay. They made the choice to screw up, they can pay back society when they get out.

    • John, wow the actual cost is crazy, I would love to know what the actual cost of obtaining a Bachelors degree would be. People are herded like cattle to obtain an education to be able to earn more and are stuck with a lifetime debt to pay back these inflated cost of education.

    • Aaron, glad you agree. I was taught that if you stepped on crap you had to clean your shoes, next time I would be more careful where I walked. My best friend fell into a life of drug dealing for the glamour, then it became a habit, and the habit became unaffordable. He started with petty theft and that led larger schemes. Eventually was caught and has been in prison for 6 years and has 9 more years to complete his sentence. I am the only friend that maintains contact with him and from the conversation tone, I can tell he is a different person but not in a good way. He has sharpened his skills in manipulation and strategy. Once he is released he will be deported and I am sure will fall right back into the same path as before, believing in his head that he will not get caught next time. Zero responsibility or interest to pay back this country for the bourdon he has caused us all. 15 years @ 31k = $465,000.00 money wasted that will never get repaid.

    • Okay, let’s say you do hold them accountable. They start their installments, then they suddenly don’t feel like paying anynore. How do you punish them? They’ve been to PRISON, what could you possibly do that would be worse? Kill them? David Gonzalez

    • Kevin it seems like you have never had a financial obligation in your life.
      Here are a few examples of what happens.

      1)Banks lend money for houses, cars, business and if the person does not pay, first it affects there credit, and if they continue to not pay the lender takes the house, repos the car, or takes possession of the business.

      2) students are lent money to pay for school and housing. Once they graduate they must begin to pay back the money they borrowed. If they decide not to pay then their wages are garnished. Some people will respond to a drop in credit score. Some will respond to the shame of wage garnish.
      In the end we must break the cycle of rewarding people for nothing in return. We as a country have fallen into a belief that we are owed everything. We should break that cycle and teach our youth that they must work and pay for what they want and be a bourdon on the rest of society. Kevin Richard Joseph Those that care and understand what they did was wrong will help educate other to not follow in their foot steps. The problem will not fix itself overnight. The plan is not perfect and in the end was my personal opinion. Since you feel so offended with my thought why don’t you come up with a solution Kevin Richard Joseph

    • David, I don’t know”in dollars ” what the actual cost of a bachelors degree is” that is like asking what is the actual cost of a car “too many variables ” I do know,if you have access to the internet, most of the knowledge is stored there, you just have to filter out the BS. We don’t need over priced college, with their billion dollar sports scams and their FOR PROFIT motives, if we had a way of testing proficiency in areas that employers are looking for. same thing for money lenders that are looking for degrees in business and accounting in order to lend money to start up businesses. or perhaps college should just be a for cost investment, you pay professors for their time and you pay for overhead cost & maintenance of the buildings you are in while you are learning, or online college. There is a big difference between “COST” and “ACTUAL COST ” as in the case of big Pharma, one example, the”ACTUAL COST ” of manufacturing a pill for asthma is 45 cents, then they turn around and sell it on the market for 25 dollars, in order to maximize profits for themselves & investors, ” COST” So why not remove the profit motive from warehousing people & and educating people ? But I guess a good capitalist just can’t pass up an opportunity to make money, After all I live in a country where people that can save your life if you have cancer or need an operation will let you DIE if they can’t make a profit from from your illness !!

    • I am in no way offended by your thoughts. Sorry if I came off that way.

      What I am trying to tell you is, what you’re suggesting would not work. How do you teach a criminal to “pay pack” what you feel he owes? I’m not saying all would not oblige if something as crazy as you suggested happened. But what would be the consequence to those who just don’t care? Bad credit? I don’t mean to attack you at all David Gonzalez, you seem to be an intelligent person, just challenging your opinion is all.

    • I agree John Albrecht as a business man I understand that people provide product/services for profits and I am ok with that. The original issue here is that a prison debate beat a Harvard debate team and are being proclaimed as more intelligent. What I’m saying is that they as prisoners are being rewarded with a free education and people who do right by society or obligated to pay for their education. I believe they should be obligated to reimburse the tax payers for the free education being offered to them and the unnecessary cost of having to house them, let alone guard them, feed them, medical and dental. Its ridiculous.

      http://www.cnn.com/US/9907/27/tough.sheriff/. This guy is on point! Crime Rate dropped 57% from 2002 to 2012. Word gets around that. Prison is not a vacation you will work and struggle to pay you debt to society.

    • Kevin its about breaking the cycle!!! A thug will always be thug till the day he dies. But if we continue to allow that mentality that they go away a few years and then are free to roam the streets. No! Implement a structure of education and facilitate job opportunities and garnish their wages for a set amount of time. Eventually starting a curb in generations to come.

    • david i have not heard you say anything about crooks that have that can afford great lawyers. and the crooks who we say hi to everyday but they did not get caught. money keep a lot of people out of jail too. in that case the whole wall st, congress etc.. she be in jail. right is wrong is wrong. somebody who got caught caught and went to jail is no different from somebody who did not get caught

    • Kaye Suga please read the original comment again. Yes! I agree with money keeps some people out of jail but eventually their luck runs out! Either the world they live in catches up with them or somebody gives them up to save themselves. One thing is for sure eventually they all go down from the thug on the street to Martha Stewart. If you commit the crime our justice system although not perfect will come through. The few that did get away will have to answer to a higher power.

      I believe in teaching people to be better human beings! I think you do too!
      We have to teach our youths to be responsible for their actions and to respect others and to take pride in themselves and to help others.
      Its better to give then to receive.

    • I definitely agree with you that the mentality that they had prior to going to jail should be broken. Who receives the payments, though? Tax payers pay for inmates “cost of living”, I guarantee we would not see a dime of any of it.

      The issue with prison systems is that men/women are put in prison and forgotten about. After they’re behind those bars, nobody gives a crap about them. There should be a system to help break their mentality, but not so they can come out and “pay back” their cost of living. They’ve spent enough time looking over their shoulders for other inmates AND prison guards! To me, that is punishment enough.

      I agree with you, there should be some kind of institution to help them become more productive members of society but the focus should not be to pay back money to the “tax payers”. We both know we wouldn’t see that money back lol David Gonzalez.

    • Here is something else to think about David Gonzalez. Imagine, woman or man who was wrongfully convicted and they just couldn’t prove their innocence. How fair is it for that person to have to pay money back for being WRONGFULLY convicted? Again, institution for changing prisoners’ mentalities, but having to pay money back….so many cons to your idea my friend.

    • Kevin if a person is wrongfully convicted and later proven innocent they usually file suit and are compensated. If you were wrongfully accused and couldn’t prove your innocence then continue your penance and take the opportunity to finish school or learn a trade and if you have already accomplished these goals in your life then help to teach others. No system is perfect!

      Imagine this! Kevin puts a solution on the table rather then criticize every angle. I would love to hear your plan.

    • I’ve discussed this topic extensively with friends, and what we’ve always agreed on is the need for an institution to help those incarcerated become more productive members of society once they’re released.

      Although, I’d rather see more action taken to help the youth not end up in prison/juvi. A lot of the youth in urban areas end up in jail, and it is becoming a major issue! Save the youth so they have a better chance at life. David Gonzalez

  • Jay Be meth and redman must not have been on team Harvard

  • Jay Be meth and redman must not have been on team Harvard

  • Roberto Melendez

  • Roberto Melendez

  • Think.

  • Think.

  • So exactly what are the “violent crimes” they were locked up for? Oh, and who did the judging?

  • So exactly what are the “violent crimes” they were locked up for? Oh, and who did the judging?

  • Has degrees from Oxford and Cambridge.

  • Has degrees from Oxford and Cambridge.

  • Has degrees from Oxford and Cambridge.

  • Woo hoooooo!!!!! Yes yes yes!!!!

  • Woo hoooooo!!!!! Yes yes yes!!!!

  • Mena A. Gendy circumstances is a hard copy of knowledge. Just like I said earlier. It goes hand in hand

    • “Getting knowledge in jail like a blessing in disguise”
      Talib kweli
      Respiration ( if u never herd the song it’s dope look it up its conscious rap not that ignorant future trap house shit)

  • Mena A. Gendy circumstances is a hard copy of knowledge. Just like I said earlier. It goes hand in hand

    • “Getting knowledge in jail like a blessing in disguise”
      Talib kweli
      Respiration ( if u never herd the song it’s dope look it up its conscious rap not that ignorant future trap house shit)

  • Robert Lawrence

  • Robert Lawrence

  • Everyone knows criminals are better at arguing a point….why do you think we vote for crooks. Well I don’t but some of you might.

  • Everyone knows criminals are better at arguing a point….why do you think we vote for crooks. Well I don’t but some of you might.

  • Great. Highly intelligent criminals.

  • Great. Highly intelligent criminals.

  • Nobody denied that. Please broaden yours

  • Nobody denied that. Please broaden yours

  • Nobody denied that. Please broaden yours

  • For that matter, don’t gauge the efficacy of a learning institution by its price of admission.

  • For that matter, don’t gauge the efficacy of a learning institution by its price of admission.

  • Shirts?

  • Shirts?

  • Chelsey Laughlin

  • Chelsey Laughlin

  • Educate yourself, fuck school lol

  • Educate yourself, fuck school lol

  • Make sure not to confuse success with intelligence either

  • Make sure not to confuse success with intelligence either

  • (Y)

  • Your point Mark Smith?

  • Your point Mark Smith?

  • Your point Mark Smith?

  • Don’t ignorant people project illusions of knowledge?

  • Don’t ignorant people project illusions of knowledge?

  • Don’t ignorant people project illusions of knowledge?

  • Well. To be fair prisoners are more prone to study (what else can they really do?) than wild college kids using daddy’s money to party at Harvard! lol Of course the prison prisoners also have somewhat more freedom to choose what they study than the harvard prisoners do. HA

  • Well. To be fair prisoners are more prone to study (what else can they really do?) than wild college kids using daddy’s money to party at Harvard! lol Of course the prison prisoners also have somewhat more freedom to choose what they study than the harvard prisoners do. HA

  • Hannah Riall

  • Hannah Riall

  • True and sad, equal opportunity does not exist, but free will does. I am proud of these guys!

  • True and sad, equal opportunity does not exist, but free will does. I am proud of these guys!

  • Nga-Atawhainga Manukau

  • Nga-Atawhainga Manukau

  • An intelligent person will ask for more information if they don’t know. An idiot will pretend to know what you’re talking about and only embarrass themselves. Remember, always ask questions. It’s better to feel like an idiot for a minute than look like one for the rest of your life.

  • An intelligent person will ask for more information if they don’t know. An idiot will pretend to know what you’re talking about and only embarrass themselves. Remember, always ask questions. It’s better to feel like an idiot for a minute than look like one for the rest of your life.

  • Kelda Moore

  • Kelda Moore

  • with age comes wisdom

  • with age comes wisdom

  • So ignorance

  • So ignorance

  • So ignorance

  • WHOOPTY-MOTHUH-FUCKING-DO! … So three black men who are in jail due to PENIS ENVY, demonstrate convincingly that they don’t just have big dicks, but they also have big brains. … That ought to really make a bunch of cowardly, little dick losers want to hire them now. ??? NOT! … Being more of a man than “The Man’ is why they are in jail in the first place. … Demonstrating that they are also smarter than The Man is why The Man will try to keep them there. And those are the sad facts. #CowardsHateCompetition

  • WHOOPTY-MOTHUH-FUCKING-DO! … So three black men who are in jail due to PENIS ENVY, demonstrate convincingly that they don’t just have big dicks, but they also have big brains. … That ought to really make a bunch of cowardly, little dick losers want to hire them now. ??? NOT! … Being more of a man than “The Man’ is why they are in jail in the first place. … Demonstrating that they are also smarter than The Man is why The Man will try to keep them there. And those are the sad facts. #CowardsHateCompetition

  • So no tuition. Must be nice.

  • So no tuition. Must be nice.

  • Khari Harris so ignorance I don get it. Ignorant the word your looking for?

  • Khari Harris so ignorance I don get it. Ignorant the word your looking for?

  • Khari Harris so ignorance I don get it. Ignorant the word your looking for?

  • so if they are that smart, then why are they in Prison?

    • Discrimination, bad choices. Abrubt decisions out of anger or money because of real life or hood situations but that has nothing to do with their intelligence

  • so if they are that smart, then why are they in Prison?

    • Discrimination, bad choices. Abrubt decisions out of anger or money because of real life or hood situations but that has nothing to do with their intelligence

  • Rest my case!! 😉

  • Rest my case!! 😉

  • The inmates had to argue in favor of public schools being allowed to deny enrollment to undocumented students — a position with which, according to a report that actually mentions the topic, they fiercely disagreed.

  • The inmates had to argue in favor of public schools being allowed to deny enrollment to undocumented students — a position with which, according to a report that actually mentions the topic, they fiercely disagreed.

  • Not sure why this has to be considered a zero sum game. Kudos to the prison debate team, they are exemplary in their hard work and application. It doesn’t mean ivy league teams are no less worthy or are somehow fraudulent.

  • Not sure why this has to be considered a zero sum game. Kudos to the prison debate team, they are exemplary in their hard work and application. It doesn’t mean ivy league teams are no less worthy or are somehow fraudulent.

  • Just because your in prison doesn’t mean your brain dead . A lot of very intelligent men and woman live their life in side .❤️

  • Just because your in prison doesn’t mean your brain dead . A lot of very intelligent men and woman live their life in side .❤️

  • True story.

  • True story.

  • True story.

  • AWKWARD!

  • AWKWARD!

  • I’ll watch the movie when it comes out.

  • I’ll watch the movie when it comes out.

  • Zero common-sense comes from college.

  • Zero common-sense comes from college.

  • I have ALWAYS said that there is a BIG difference between being SMART and being INTELLIGENT.

  • I have ALWAYS said that there is a BIG difference between being SMART and being INTELLIGENT.

  • Harvard!! Ha, ha, $$$$$$$$$$ don’t give IQ!

  • Harvard!! Ha, ha, $$$$$$$$$$ don’t give IQ!

  • Black didn’t make them right

  • Black didn’t make them right

  • They were just right

  • They were just right

  • I know plenty of highly educated morons.

  • I know plenty of highly educated morons.

  • They were smart enough not to get locked up

  • They were smart enough not to get locked up

  • And how do we know the prison team didn’t go to Harvard?

  • And how do we know the prison team didn’t go to Harvard?

  • There is a big difference between the mind of a 31-year old and a 20-year old.

  • There is a big difference between the mind of a 31-year old and a 20-year old.

  • Lol….cuz it’s about the color….that’s why they won and Harvard University didnt…DUH…. LOL no it doesn’t work like that…again I’m sure these pictures are just pulled from the Internet to represent and make a picture for the words…it’s not a war ….it’s a mind war….get over color

  • Lol….cuz it’s about the color….that’s why they won and Harvard University didnt…DUH…. LOL no it doesn’t work like that…again I’m sure these pictures are just pulled from the Internet to represent and make a picture for the words…it’s not a war ….it’s a mind war….get over color

  • There is a gulf between the education shoveled out at our schools and intelligence, any fool can pass exams……. Stay in and chant the course like some kind of mantra, eventually it will sink in.

  • There is a gulf between the education shoveled out at our schools and intelligence, any fool can pass exams……. Stay in and chant the course like some kind of mantra, eventually it will sink in.

  • Nothing speaks so loudly as Life Smarts!!

  • Nothing speaks so loudly as Life Smarts!!

  • This made NPR. Gotta love the Underdogs….

  • This made NPR. Gotta love the Underdogs….

  • more about rich v/s middle class/poor than reps v/s dems

  • more about rich v/s middle class/poor than reps v/s dems

  • more about rich v/s middle class/poor than reps v/s dems

  • Or experience or even worse wisdom.

  • Or experience or even worse wisdom.

  • Betsy Arias Gilberto Arias it’s decided, If I want to be a good debater, I can’t govto harvard!

  • Betsy Arias Gilberto Arias it’s decided, If I want to be a good debater, I can’t govto harvard!

  • I wonder what they debated about?

  • I wonder what they debated about?

  • Aoife Kearney there’s hope you after all

  • Aoife Kearney there’s hope you after all

  • Harvard is full of dumb rich kids with a ticket from mum and dad

  • Harvard is full of dumb rich kids with a ticket from mum and dad

  • The quote clearly begs the question

  • The quote clearly begs the question

  • The quote clearly begs the question

  • Intelligence is the ability to reason whereas education is the ability to remember!
    These days the education system is designed to rid students of the ability to reason . They must be as robots or computer hard drives and store the information for instant recall. The cabal do not want free thinking people because they are a threat to that cabal!

  • Intelligence is the ability to reason whereas education is the ability to remember!
    These days the education system is designed to rid students of the ability to reason . They must be as robots or computer hard drives and store the information for instant recall. The cabal do not want free thinking people because they are a threat to that cabal!

  • Pretty awesome ! If some of these prisoners had the same opportunity as the students think what might happen

  • Pretty awesome ! If some of these prisoners had the same opportunity as the students think what might happen

  • What was the topic of debate? What was the debate about? The 20 year old student mentioned that they were caught off guard. Off guard because they didn’t know that it was a debate?
    Prisoners winning a debate over some college freshmans n sophomores is fun. How about prisoners going up against proven lawyers and grown professionals is another thing. Let’s have that debate.
    The students are still free. And prisoners are still incarcerated in a 5×8 box. Who really wins?
    Let’s see, after the prisoners are released will they come out as harden criminals again, or will they reformed themselves from the inside out and be model citizens? That is the real debate. Old habits die hard as they say. Will these prisoners go back on the streets and sell drugs again? Will the be assulting ppl again and used weapons again?
    Will they win the debate of life and be free until death or return to prison because they can’t break old habits and fall back into the hands of those who profit from the prison business? Let’s see how it unfolds.

  • What was the topic of debate? What was the debate about? The 20 year old student mentioned that they were caught off guard. Off guard because they didn’t know that it was a debate?
    Prisoners winning a debate over some college freshmans n sophomores is fun. How about prisoners going up against proven lawyers and grown professionals is another thing. Let’s have that debate.
    The students are still free. And prisoners are still incarcerated in a 5×8 box. Who really wins?
    Let’s see, after the prisoners are released will they come out as harden criminals again, or will they reformed themselves from the inside out and be model citizens? That is the real debate. Old habits die hard as they say. Will these prisoners go back on the streets and sell drugs again? Will the be assulting ppl again and used weapons again?
    Will they win the debate of life and be free until death or return to prison because they can’t break old habits and fall back into the hands of those who profit from the prison business? Let’s see how it unfolds.

  • If their so intelligent why are they in prison?

  • If their so intelligent why are they in prison?

  • “Broaden your views” while speaking about one of TWO political parties you can choose from. Please choke on your own spit.

  • “Broaden your views” while speaking about one of TWO political parties you can choose from. Please choke on your own spit.

  • “Broaden your views” while speaking about one of TWO political parties you can choose from. Please choke on your own spit.

  • If they were so intelligent how come they ended up in jail, let me guess…..

  • If they were so intelligent how come they ended up in jail, let me guess…..

  • Hope they turn their lives around.

  • Hope they turn their lives around.

  • I’ve said this my entire life.

  • I’ve said this my entire life.

  • Yes!!!!!!!!!!!

  • What was the topic of debate?

  • The left wing and the right wing are both part of the same bird.

  • The left wing and the right wing are both part of the same bird.

  • The left wing and the right wing are both part of the same bird.

  • because the teaches are dumbing down the young kids…better to control when stupid…they have no teachers that are dumbing them down in prison they ar reading and learning more then the suppose educated students? its not about making them smarter..is making them to OBEY THE SCHOOL SYSTEMS

  • Samantha Thomas

  • Abril Lerma

  • Maryam Nwz

  • Don’t confuse intelligence with wisdom. With a just a little bit of wisdom, these intelligent inmates would not be in prison in the first place. The amount of wisdom one has can make an idiot a king, or a genius a beggar.

  • Education is a controlled environment, the Libraries provide you with all the knowledge you maybe seeking. Just because a individual attends a University, their intelligence isn’t better than the individual who has been reading and soaking up every book they have ever read. I am a Reader, I’m intelligent but NOT Educated. So Yes I am so Proud of these prisoners for their big Win, it gives me Hope B-)

  • Anyone notice the guys t-shirt is spelt incorrectly

  • But both teams were well educated

  • real life experience versus theory. if you haven’t gotten your hands dirty you don’t really “know” jack

  • Hard to belive with NO reference in the article about the topic of the debate sounds like someone is cooking the books ………maybe the topic of the debate was prison bitches or something along those lines haha

  • They are in prison for felony manslaughter. Why are they debating? Do crime, do your time or more. Great minds or not, they are criminals. They should be repaying their debts to the herd.

  • funny, college is a joke

  • Well the Harvard kids were prob drinking partying and fucking while the prison dudes were studying.

  • No way! Haha

  • The rich cant keep us down. Remember that.

  • Still cant find a link to the debate.
    But hey, glad my kids are each working three jobs to get though college, while these inmates are getting it for free.
    I am all for rehabilitation but let’s remember they are convicted of manslaughter which means they took a life.
    Lets not celebrate them too much!

  • Oh Charlie….save that street scholar bullshit. Half the people in jail or on the streets cant read or do math at a 5th grade level.
    I want to see this debate. Personally, I think they won because it will help with prison reform. Which, yes the country needs.

  • These inmates are in college. They are not just self taught. They also beat West Point. Were the West Point students all just out drinking?

  • People in prison, if they use their time wisely, actually have way more time to study and practice skills. This is not all that surprising. The inmates are educated as well.

  • Jack McElwee

  • Soooo true

  • Lmao best comment Noah Tiedemann

  • Lmao best comment Noah Tiedemann

  • Lmao best comment Noah Tiedemann

  • Anyone have a link to the actual debate, im just curious to see how this was all done,

  • Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Doesn’t have to do with people who PRETEND to be intelligent.

  • Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Doesn’t have to do with people who PRETEND to be intelligent.

  • Ignorance is the lack of knowledge. Doesn’t have to do with people who PRETEND to be intelligent.

  • to be fare, debates don’t qualify you to be a doctor, engineer, or accountant. you have to be academically tested before you jump into that sort of field. but yeah, apparently Harvard isn’t creating free thinkers, but it is creating politicians?… scary thought.
    Props to these guys for making something amazing out of their crappy situation, and bettering themselves.

  • its obvious you get a better education in prison.

  • Reminds me of Louise Zandberg Smith my debate partner at South High, the least regarded high school in Grand Rapids. We beat the most highly regarded East Grand Rapids High in the City High School final debate to take the City championship.

  • This is absurd. This whole meme works against itself because they are assuming that because a person is in prison that they’re uneducated…

  • Mel Brown always keeps intelligence in reverence compared to “education” /indoctrination.

  • (Y) + Comment or share to help us reach more people with this incredible story. Tag someone who needs to see it 😉

  • Oppression has a way of focusing the intellect………read Stokely Carmichael.

  • Angelis Athena, a prime example of why IQ tests are silly 🙂

    • Why? I bet that prison team has comparable IQs, if not higher.

    • Because IQ tests are pointless, as any test is. The whole idea that IQ means anything is rubbish. I’d bet that the Harvard team would smash an IQ test because they are used to the type of shit that they’d question you on. Yet they are not able to think critically when faced with those who have so much less time to train themselves to do so.

    • Fortunately that’s not how the world works. I can’t imagine a society of people who could go around claiming to have credentials that they didn’t earn. Tests are important, always. There is nothing wrong with IQ tests either. The very idea that black people, that were born and raised in our society, wouldn’t do well on an IQ test is racist. You are also selling short those kids from Harvard, I’m sure that they are very intelligent as well. Just because they were bested in a competition does not mean that they are suddenly unable to think critically. You sound extremely ignorant and there are hints of bitterness and a personal agenda in what you have written.

    • That’s not true at all, tests are an objective way to measure a subjective human feature, the written test tests nothing more than memory retention. This idea that a credential is somehow the best way to note the intellect of an individual is absurd in the same way that any objective scale outside of science is. You said it yourself, the Harvard students are probably just as smart as the criminals (a point i never doubted), however the Harvard students have been conditioned into success in this kind of forum for MANY years. The prison debate team has not had anywhere near that kind of time or money pit into it. Finally I’m actually pretty damn good at tests, written, spoken and debate. I came to this conclusion about tests is because i am good at them, i know I don’t know the shit i talked about in them, i know that all i did was memorise what i needed to know for what i was doing then i forgot it all! Finally why do you resort to personal attack? Do you feel your rebuttal has too little validity on it’s own?

  • You get out of education what you put into it. You can get the same education for $1.50 in late charges at your local public library as any Ivy Leaguer who drops $150K+ in tuition costs at a prestigious university.

    • Another reason college is just a scam

    • The reason to go to college is to gain access to certain resources, e.g. laboratories for chemistry, robotics, physics, etc… and to network with others who are doing the same type of research as you. But to think that you NEED to go to college to become well educated is a false assumption.

    • Well here public universities are free (as long as your grades are high enough). Strictly speaking, you don’t need to go to a public ‘learning’ institution, but it makes it much more convenient, and you are introduced to knowledge you may have not known even existed to even look for in the first place. In my own humble personal theory, I think that most people that go to prestigious universities usually have a pretty easy life and knowledge presents itself to them. Yet, for people that seek it for themselves, the knowledge is embedded much better and is much more genuine, which ultimately leads me to the conclusion that the highest aspect is will, not taking prestigious tuition. After all, with the advent of the Internet, almost anything is possible.

    • Exactly. Yeah, I would say that going to university can be very helpful and useful for many reasons, but this idea that you need to spend tons of money on an expensive privatized university because you can’t get a good education at a public university is flawed reasoning. I went to a state university (and didn’t have to pay tuition because I won scholarships and my grades were good enough to get grants, waivers and vouchers to cover all my costs), and I went all the way to graduate school, getting a Master’s degree in Computer Science and did scientific research that was published at the ISCRAM 2012 Conference (Information Systems for Crisis Response and Management). Also, the computer science department at my state university participated in programming competitions against students from MIT, and won! Its not about prestige or money. Its about how hard you work to get good at whatever goals you are trying to pursue.

    • I’d like to add that with public schooling, what you learn is learned by everyone else, but if you study on your own, you carve your own path and therefore can open your own possibilities for achievement, whereas if your knowledge is on the same level as about most others, it’s only a matter of ability and luck (being fortunate enough to be able to gain more opportunities). Also, talking from personal experience, what is learned in school is on systematic levels and things learned on previous years are easily forgettable because they may not apply to this year and what is needed to be learned, as you don’t get tested on something again unless it is necessary for knowledge built on top of it. But, if you learn something on your own, it becomes a part of you and your own journey that is not categorized in levels. That’s just my own opinion, though.

    • What is this? This statement is taken from Good Will Hunting. So now your basing your facts on a movie.

    • Yes, its a line from a movie, but no, I’m not “basing my facts on a movie”… but from personal experience. The line from the movie articulates the message it carries well. 😛

    • I also quote great thinkers and philosophers from time to time, ass wipe.

    • There are people with college degrees whos flipping burgers at mcdoanlds

    • Abdoul Razak Indeed. Working minimum wage jobs and probably declaring bankruptcy because they can’t pay back their tuition loans.

    • You feel big calling names? Shows your lack of original thinking. I just simply pointed out you quoted a movie. Don’t get your panties in a bunch. Education is what you make it. History is written by winners and those winners destroy the history and make it favor themselves. See I can quote people too I just choose not to because I’m not them and I don’t take shit that doesn’t belong to me. Can you guess who that quote was from.

    • Don’t like me? Fuck off! Problem solved.

    • Lol never said that. Calm down. You take shit way too seriously. 1 love.

    • Quit bitching then.

    • Awe you sound like a bitter old man. It’s OK your still cool in my book. OK OK I’ll stop now.

    • You want some fries with that?

  • That’s the outcome I would expect, actually. Spending any time in prison teaches one to be an incredible negotiator and retrains your thought process to become a fucking MacGyver. Being able to improvise your answers on the fly will out shine memorization every time.

    • Bet they wish they had those skills before they went to prison. *eyeroll*

  • The Free Thought Project.com Did they release the debate? I can’t find any footage.

  • Wasn’t no great accomplishment. Google those debates. Was more like a rap off.

    • The topic was whether U.S. public schools should be able to deny enrollment to undocumented students. Not exactly a “rap off”

    • This is what they did, Bonny – it is called ”policy debating”, or ”spreading”:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZeDq90Ar4k

    • A comment from a judge of this type of debating:

      “You all need to believe me when I tell you that you wouldn’t understand a word of the debate. I’m guessing this was a 3-man policy debate. it’s one if the forms of debate competed on the college level. In this form of debate the speakers “spread”. meaning they talk as fast as humanly possible, presenting as many different aspects and arguments to the case in the allotted speaking time. If I recall first affirmative gets 6 minutes. it’s then a back and forth. the affirmative presents as many arguments as are humanly possible and the negative attempts to refute them. They go back and forth until everyone has spoken. If any of the arguments presented at the beginning of the debate have not been sufficiently refuted in the eyes of the judge the arguments are said to “flow”, meaning the affirmative has proved them valid. If the affirmative can successfully flow any of their arguments, they win. If the negative has refuted them all, they win. Students prepare for hours researching all possible approaches to a subject. They spend hours and hours researching and compiling documented evidence that can be used to refute any affirmative arguments. Based on this report it seems the inmates must have come up with some totally outside the box arguments that the Harvard kids had never been faced with before. And as someone who used to judge college debate, those arguments are usually so outlandish that a reasonably person wouldn’t expect them. Hard documented evidence goes a long way in convincing a judge whether or not an argument flows. So all the logic and intelligence of the Harvard kids would be worthless if the prisoners came up with an argument that, say, involved space aliens. honestly, it’s kind of dirty pool. So TECHNICALLY, the prisoners won because they presented arguments that the Harvard kids hadn’t researched. TECHNICALLY, within the rules, if those arguments flow they win. it certainly doesn’t mean they out argued them. or were smarter than them. or used superior logic. and like I said, if you saw the video you wouldn’t be able to understand a word of it. those kids go like 240 words per minute.”

    • That sounds like a reasonable critique. Calling it a “rap-off” definitely made you sound like an a-hole and not like someone who actually knew what they were talking about

    • I am an “a-hole” ( 🙂 ) But that aside, this type of “debating’ makes no more sense to me than rapping.

  • Passion can supersede pretentious intelligence.

  • Yeah, you mad.

  • Prison is full of super intelligent people. It’s designed that way!

  • Sad thing is the Harvard team spent some good money…

  • Too bad they couldn’t put forth more effort to get an education when they weren’t in prison.

  • Connor Smith don’t get any ideas.
    College > prison.

  • That’s called experience

  • The implication that prisoners are uneducated is problematic for me.

  • . . . . or cultivation, for that matter.

  • Because knowledge is free.

  • Jay Castello Coulson

    • Wow! Hard livin+locked up with a bunch of books=gaining profound wisdom and knowledge..

  • Hahahaha 🙂

  • Truth is powerful

  • Good job, boys. Bet it was fun.

  • They spend a lot of time talking to them selfs. And with life experience to boot

  • ok so men who don’t have lives vs kids who have lives…okay.

    • lol god forbid that 100k a year go to them actually learning anything, if you just want to party i could show you how to do that for way less money

  • “Do you like apples”?

  • College/Univ education is extremely overrated. Travel the world & learn on the go instead. You’ll be far more prepared for life.

  • Never underestimate your opponent.

    Story → …bit…/1Nh2mW6
    The Free Thought Project… (Y)

  • Congrat’s.!!!

  • The difference between knowledge and wisdom?

  • Emma Doyon

  • If people are afforded free college degrees they may end up saving tax payers money by not having to be afforded free college in prison on top of the US$80,000 a year to keep inmates incarcerated.

  • Sean Myers

  • theyve been eading all the law books theyve got lying around, trying to figre out if nailing somones ears to a tree has become leagal recenly

  • Considering how many smart and mostly innocent people we lock up in the drug war, I’m surprised this didn’t happen sooner.

    • Yeah mostly innocent lol.

    • Most people put in jail by the drug war are non-violent, and have been put in jail to support the prison system. Most drug offences have no victim(especially marijuana offences). Not all laws are moral, and not all prisoners are guilty of crimes against society. Most are jailed for breaking immoral laws like simple possesion if you want to crunch numbers. The hole only gets deeper from there. Number one incarceration rate in the world because of our “moral” drug war.

    • Ross Dolen you are an idiot

    • Shannon Hassett Eh I might take you more seriously if you didn’t have a girl’s name. Have a good day Shannon lol.

  • Education simply implies you’re good at following orders and copying what you read.

  • A Mass debate was had by all..

  • You will learn lessons and meet all kinds of people in prison

  • can we see the dabate please?? it wasnt about prison cups being made of paper was it?

    • The topic was whether U.S. public schools should be able to deny enrollment to undocumented students.

  • harvard entrance depends on money.

  • Prison opens your mind to levels focus you didn’t know you had.

  • Well umm, doesn’t George Bush have a Harvard degree? Just sayin…

    • i think you’re thinking of yale. despite their affiliation, vastly different institutions. at harvard you at least have to look like you are trying. yale is a playground for the powerful

  • intelligence and knowledge are 2 different things. true intelligence comes from the heart and can’t just be learnt!

  • while I do applaud their success, it’s also true that many (if not most) prison inmates are geniuses when it comes to arguing both sides of an issue. It’s a skill they honed in childhood in order to survive in the same toxic home environments that made them criminals in the first place.

    • Lol you are sincerely deluded if you think that’s in any way true. Most people in prison are non violent drug offenders that shouldnt be there to begin with if not for draconian social policing policies of the US.

    • OK, what are those guys in for?

    • Just because someone goes to prison it doesn’t make them diametrically fucked in the head. Though arguably, prison can and will fuck your psyche into being that way. Broken home lives definitely need addressed, but dont lump multiple issues into one and act like its all homogenous when it isn’t at all.

    • so what were those 3 in for?

    • Wow…you’re mind is bent bro

    • Nelson, the fact that you’re asking means you’re part of the problem. The question is an irrelevant attack on the nature of their humanity. It lessens yours in asking.

    • yeah, you’re right… why should anyone even try to find out if I’m right or not. Let’s just go on believing what we want to believe, I think that”s the best plan.

    • Assuming every single person in jail deserves to be there.

    • It’s easy to know many don’t belong -our incarceration population is dramatically high.

    • Nelson Hughes whether you are correct in this line of statements, I do not have the knowledge to say, but it sure sounds logical to me, but where you are SO RIGHT, is in the IGNORANCE of commenting on a subject, you only THINK you know about, WITHOUT DOING ANY INVESTIGATING ! Incorrect information does nothing but spread ignorance, just 10 minutes googling a subject, could change your opinion completely, or at the very least, make you question whether or not you have the RIGHT to comment ! Thank You Nelson, if you opened one set of eyes, then you did a great thing.

    • He asked for it! 😀 and subtly said Mr Patrick

    • and yet my original question still goes unanswered… google anyone?

    • while I do applaud their success, it’s also true that many (if not most) corporate capitalists are geniuses when it comes to arguing both sides of an issue. It’s a skill they honed in childhood in order to survive in the same toxic home environments that made them criminals in the first place.

    • Charles Purdy you’re actually right on that one. As it turns out, sociopaths typically do very well in both corporate and government hierarchies. Your president is one.

      Oh BTW, I DON’T applaud THEIR success.

      http://www.payscale.com/career-news/2015/04/why-a-disproportionate-number-of-ceos-are-psychopaths

    • more sociopaths in government (I never said only prison inmates were sociopaths)

      http://hotair.com/archives/2016/01/16/the-epa-knew-about-flints-toxic-water-for-months-and-didnt-tell-anyone/

    • Here’s a guy who thinks the earth’s population should be 500 million (roughly one-tenth of what it is today)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClqUcScwnn8

    • here’s some well-known corporate sociopaths (Ted Cruz is married to one)

      http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/06/28/255724/goldman-sachs-outsource-1000-jobs-singapore/

    • … and I think it goes without saying that virtually all LE are sociopaths

    • Tim Imszennik nice try, btw, who actually answered my original question? I sure didn’t get such attention there, did I?

    • Sorry but u are misinformed about the majority of prison population.

    • Lance Dejlo Sorry, but where did I comment on “the majority of the prison population”?

  • #word

  • And who ends up running the world?

  • Not every “educated” person is intelligent, and intelligence can come from different avenues of education.

    • Yes, it always depends how hungry one is for knowledge. jw dot org

  • But they weren’t intelligent enough to stay out of prison.

    • lol just like all those holocaust victims weren’t intelligent enough to not get holocausted

  • lol Harvard how the mighty have falle

  • this only proves one thing .. America has nothing to do with freedom .. not even remotely .

  • I do not like this glorifying of the prison industrial complex!!!

  • it could be they got free education and the others had to work to pay their way

    • show me the story where someone actually worked to pay their way through harvard- what 19 year old makes 6 figures? taking out a loan is fine but it’s not paid yet so don’t act like it is. it’s a promise to pay

  • that’s ridiculous because formal debate is based on formal rules so obviously both sides had formal education enough to participate in the debate. it’s a false dichotomy. either way it neither proves nor counterindicates anyone’s intelligence

  • True!!!

  • Does not surprise me at all.

  • Lol, Asian privilege.

  • No way. That’s just impossible. Serves those stuck up yuppies right.

  • Guys locked up got nothing but time and when that time is focused torwards something like this better watch out

  • When the hell did the prison system let inmates have a debate team and compete? I’m sure it wasn’t in Cali…

  • Is the debate on YouTube?

  • It was at this moment, that these Harvard students knew, they fucked up!!!! Lol.

  • Just because you can afford Harvard doesn’t mean you belong in Harvard 😛

  • Well one group has spent years watching expert Lawyers debate, the other reads about those debates…

    • not the same kind of debating actually

    • Not the point. Regulations don’t inhibit technique, they just illustrate weaknesses differently.

  • To be fair though the prison debate team had exponentially more time to rehearse than the Harvard debate team.

    • rote memorization of specific rules and formalities then right? so what does any of it have to do with intelligence of any kind, very little

    • Intelligence has nothing to do with debate, it who is better prepared. It’s not like the topics up for debate is completely random and unknown to either group.

  • Mary, remember this

  • Only cos they felt sorry for them.

    • No one with dark skin could possibly know what the fuck they are talking about right? lol. Also no one who is poor- oh wait that’s your entire country and region so I guess your opinion is automatically shit lol

    • Lol!! Wow thanks for your wonderful deep insight you genetically improvised little shit stain:) What if it were black people that won over and over?… I doubt you would be on the side you are now . How about you learn what’s worth sticking up for and what isn’t.

  • We so often base intelligence on formal education. I know too many people with multiple degrees who aren’t that smart. They just memorize things and follow orders well.

  • Prison inmates likely have more free time. However, the resources of the Harvard team far outweigh any benefits that a prison inmate will have.

  • Fucking white people!! They suck!….. Fuck you race baiting “free” thought project …… And your shitty jabs at whitey!

  • I think it’s a great idea to educate these inmates since the recidivism rate is over 50% nationwide, and of the prisoners educated in the bard college initiative, only 2% have been rearrested. Statistics are that US spends 212 billion a yr on the prison system, over half return anyway, and 95% are released into society eventually. I would rather have them educated in prison, knowing they’ll be on the streets again. Besides, for those complaining about taxpayer money: the inmates in this debate were not “educated” with tax money, but with private donations. And personally, I would rather pay for them to be educated, get out and contribute, and be less likely to return to prison, than to simply spend my money keeping them fed and incarcerated for life. If you look at the statistics, there is a much higher chance of them leaving prison and becoming sound, contributing members of society if they’re educated, which benefits us all. Look at the bigger picture.

    • It always depends how hungry one is for knowledge.

    • Too true.

    • 90% of the public, agrees w u, however, the VERY influencial Officers unions r against bringing down the recidivism rate. 4 example: Calif has the nations highest 63% recidivism, almost double the national average. costs taxpayers 38,000 per inmate, Per yr. thats an Outrage! but the CCPOA says we’re just doing our job. BS !

    • Cuauhtemoc Ortizlucero I hate to think of anyone jailed too long or mistreated until their bad situation becomes worse and they lose the will to appreciate justice for all and recede.
      
      I’d ‘like’ to think prison protects law abiding society from those unable or unwilling to control themselves enough on the outside.

      As I’ve grown older I appreciate havinge a proper fear of disrespecting the law of the land.

      It’s rules, it’s just rules, there has to be rules. Forever there will be rules to keep the peace and rules and boundaries that will even will PROMOTE peace more and more.

      Also it must be remembered that penalties are not necessarily just for the sake of the imprisoned person, they supply fear to those outside.

      It’s best just not to gamble with the law. God himself oversees it. Read Romans chapter 13 and all is revealed.

      All will appreciate peace and the fear to do wrong in God’s Kingdom Government soon because they want to. We will love, and then rejoice during the resurrection and happiness and health and youth will vibrate everywhere, like it should, forever. jw dot org.

  • “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”
    ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

    “Those who love peace must learn to organize as effectively as those who love war.”

    ― Martin Luther King Jr.

  • Too bad they weren’t intelligent enough to stay out of jail.

    • too bad the french aren’t smart enough to not get shot lol

    • That was real good. Considering they brought our entire nation to its knees with box cutters. Dumbass.

  • Circling the girls face and putting u mad next to it. Classy very classy

    You act like news outlets with that kind of shit trying to make it look a certain way. Maybe she congratulated them afterwards

  • I do not know what these gentlemen are serving time for, prohibition laws have stolen the freedom from very intelligent citizens. Then winning does not supprise me.

  • Shashi Savimaki

  • Makes you wonder what a harvard degree is really worth

  • I would have loved to see it!

  • Just look at the jokes in the presidential debates?!

  • The reason they beat the university is because prison is college for crime.

  • People from all walks of life can end up in prison, and for a variety of reasons. But people can go or not go to college for a variety of reasons; sometimes they go because of family wealth and expectations, and not due so much to academic prowess or worthiness. We tend to overrate the intelligence of our college graduates and underrate that of our prison population.

    • I’ve found it pretty easy to avoid prison.

    • Count your blessings, then! Has your boss ever asked you to lie to a government investigator? Several people have, and their choice then is to be able to continue to feed and support your family or to go to jail. Life is not always so easy.

  • I never went to college, and yet find myself smarter than a lot of people with a degree….

  • What topic were they debating ?

  • Vincent McDonald

  • HA HA!!!!!!!

  • I don’t want to take anything away, because I agree, but as someone destroyed the “Ivy Leagues” as a Community College student at the Adlai E. Stevenson Debate Tournament at Princeton University, “ivy league” kids are dumb as shit. They have no sense of reality, and just regurgitate whatever rhetoric they’ve been spoon-fed. They don’t call Harvard “google university” for nothing.

  • Because more money goes to prisons than education, so big suprise? NOT!!!

  • Fuckin finally why cant people understand that a peice of paper does not define a persons intelligence

  • It’s a debate. They didn’t engineer anything. Solve any difficult problem.

  • Onno Hennis

  • So true, there are a lot of educated idiots

  • i hope Harvard didnt think it was going to be easy lol

  • Because the topics were rigged to debate things the Harvard team knew nothing about.

    How come you guys never present both sides of the story?

    • Source?

    • Well this story is at least two years old so it’s kind of hard to find sources, but I’ll do my best

    • I meant a year not two sorry. The topic was given to the prisoners and they were given time to research and prepare for the debate. The Harvard team was given less time. The thinking behind it was because the materials that the prisoners would need such as books and access to the Internet had to be approved by prison officials which takes much longer. Obviously the Harvard team had access to everything that needed.

      The prisoners also debated West Point and another college on the same topic so already had the knowledge of knowing what worked and what didn’t.

      I’m really not trying to take anything away from what the prisoners accomplished because it is impressive, but if everything was equal I think the Harvard team would have beaten them.

  • Yup, I know several with lots of education and NO common sense!

  • People hate on the under dog…. Excuses on why Harvard lost… Whatever your bull is they pay good money to learn and obviously haven’t lol

  • It’s clueless kids with wealthy parents… They have NO clue of what is going on in the real world. They would lose any debate with common society!

  • Education does not equal Intelligence ,and Intelligence does not equal Wisdom !

  • Yes bash those that lost instead of applauding those that won. It’s not about who won or lost it’s about preconceived notions. I’ll give you one I believe, our society is a fucking disgusting joke and this meme proves it.

  • Cordelia Cooper

  • time out… if theyre prisoners that means that they sit around reading books and pretty much studying all day while i pay for them to be there. on the other hand the Harvard kids probably have 4-5 other classes AT HARVARD to worry about. so this post is retarded.

  • guess the fella in prison had plenty of time on their hands to educate themselves… unlike the rich ‘college educated’ who spend all their spare time playing … congrats guy!

  • And education with knowledge!

  • Ridiculous debate. Ridiculous rules. This shows nothing.

    Please to the moderators of this page. Post the rules of this debate please.

  • Shong Xiong just to watch later

  • Aaron Hughbanks

  • “three men incarcerated for violent crimes”

    I understand the meme, “NEVER CONFUSE EDUCATION FOR INTELLIGENCE”, but reading that these men were convicted of violent crimes makes me think that they weren’t intelligent enough to know right from wrong.

  • Lucius Carlisle

  • Goes to show you how you can be when you get your mind prepared correctly.

  • No surprise at all

  • They should work for Dont hommie Alejo Ponce Ju

  • Great story!

  • Where can we view this debate?

  • The collegiate version of The Longest Yard… So I guess it would be called the longest sentence???

  • it’s point is to educate these ppl; so they can be equally ‘intelligent ‘ to the Harvard counterparts. the money spent is equal. so why not the outcome. when your backs against the wall. the choices are cloudy. the only thing clear is to survive.

  • Never.

  • Something I been saying my whole life.

  • $29,000.00 a year for each prisoner a year is $13,000.00 a year more than I am paid by disability insurance that I paid for. Need in say more?

  • harvard and all other ivy league colleges are overrated

  • So cool

  • If they were really smart they wouldn’t be in prison.

  • Is there a video of the full debate?

  • Love that line about the republicans saying that no money should be spent on educating prisoners because regular folk have it hard enough as it is, yet do we see them attempt to do anything for regular folk? Hell no. They look at us the same as those behind bars, they look at is like a wolf looks at sheep.

  • Can anyone up load the video

  • Still an unfair advantage due to age and life experience. Just saying..

  • Thats right! Recognize!

  • I don’t disagree with the sentiment at all; but one doesn’t win a debate. One presents a side of an argument and may or may not have logical valid points for it. both sides won for participation in an event that educates people.

  • “I try not to let my schooling interfere with my education” Mark Twain

  • And dont act like prisoners lack an education

  • “Modern education” is not about being smart, its about being conformed to a system that self replicates economic and mental enslavement in the masses. Its designed to put anyone that fights back against the establishment, in jail. There are a lot of smart criminals out their folks, and the system made most of them that way.

  • Where is the link to watch the debate?!

  • Also 38 yr olds competing against 19yr olds. Lol

  • its being a good con man .thats it in a nutshell

  • likes this.

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